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  DIETER F. UCHTDORF
Total Articles: 13
Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Mormon Apostle.
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Dieter Uchtdorf: "People Will Join The Church By The Hundreds And Thousands"
Thursday, Jun 4, 2009, at 07:49 AM
Original Author(s): Infymus
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
From the Mormon Church owned KSL:
Thousands of Latter-day Saints in Russia and Ukraine are participating in an historic event: They are meeting with a member of their faith's First Presidency and the Church's newest apostle.

The couples visited Kiev, where a temple is under construction. President Gordon B. Hinckley announced it in 1998 but problems with Ukrainian local bureaucracy delayed groundbreaking until June of 2007.

President Uchtdorf told Church members, "The temple will be a blessing. People will join the Church by the hundreds and thousands."
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&...

People may join by "the hundreds and thousands", but will remain active by the ones and twos.
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Elder Uchtdorf identifies Book of Mormon people
Monday, Dec 12, 2011, at 10:55 AM
Original Author(s): Mia
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
At the Quetzaltenango Guatemala Temple dedication the children of Father Lehi were mentioned. Pictures of living Book of Mormon people are in the links.

December 10

http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles...

Uchtdorf "You are truly children of our wonderful Father Lehi."

December 11

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/70...

But I don't know that we teach that anymore.

Lying to people about who and what they are in relationship to God is a sadistic thing to do.

I left when I realized all of the lies they were showering women with. What they are saying to these people has shades of how they have treated women. It is a condescending lie to further their own interests. It will be a lifetime endeavor for me to recover from that. It infuriates me when I see them doing this to an entire group of people. I can't help but wonder if they feel they have lost the women of America, so now it's time to denigrate and control someone else.

The ancestral lie goes one step deeper than the lies I was told as a woman. When these people find out about, and understand DNA the backlash is going to be huge. The church leadership probably know this on some level, but still persist. They persist in an attempt to build up their own egos. I hope there is a special place in hell for them.
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Dieter F. Uchtdorf - Hostage Negotiator?
Monday, Jan 14, 2013, at 07:57 AM
Original Author(s): Drifting
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
This is a quote from Dieter's biography on lds.org:
On December 17, 1973, the president of Lufthansa German Airlines received alarming news. Five terrorists had hijacked a Lufthansa 737 jet in Rome, Italy, and were making their way to Athens, Greece, with hostages on board. In an instant, Lufthansa's president ordered into the air his chief pilot for the 737 fleet. Thirty-three-year-old Dieter F. Uchtdorf was to take a small group of emergency personnel and follow the hijacked plane wherever the guerrillas took it. In every setting possible he was to negotiate for the release of the plane, the pilots, and the hostages. Then, when all of this had been accomplished, he was to fly the hijacked 737 back to headquarters in Frankfurt.

With fortunately no more bloodshed, this mission, like so many others he had been on personally and professionally, was successfully accomplished.
http://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apost...

Now this may or may not be accurate, but let's assume for a moment that it is.

Why has the Church, with Dieter's permission, seen fit to make this paragraph the first part of Dieter's 'biography' on lds.org?

As for it's accuracy - the Lufthansa hijacking:
Other gunmen took several Italian hostages and Lufthansa ground crewmembers into a Lufthansa Boeing 737 waiting to depart for Munich. An Italian customs officer was shot dead on the ground after resisting. The plane, containing Captain Joe Kroese, the first officer, two flight attendants, two ground crew, and eight Italian hostages, took off for Athens, Greece on the orders of the five terrorists also on board. After landing in Athens, the terrorists demanded by radio the release of two Palestinian gunmen responsible for a previous attack on an Athens airport terminal lounge. They claimed to have killed five hostages, including the plane's first officer. The terrorists also threatened to crash the jet in the middle of Athens if their demands were not met. In reality, only one Italian hostage had been killed and one wounded. The plane took off again from Athens after sixteen hours on the ground and after the gunmen had released the wounded hostage and dumped the body of the dead hostage onto the tarmac.

The plane next headed for Beirut, where Lebanese authorities refused to allow landing, and blocked the runway with vehicles. Cyprus also refused to allow landing. The guerrillas on board finally ordered the plane to be landed in Damascus, Syria, allegedly because the plane was running low on fuel. In Syria, Air Force Commander Major General Naji Jamil attempted to persuade the Palestinians to release the hostages, but they refused. The Syrians provided food and refueled the plane. They also treated a head injury suffered by one of the hijackers. The plane took off again after about two to three hours.

The commandeered jet next headed for Kuwait, where Kuwaiti authorities refused to allow it to land. Captain Kroese was ordered by the terrorists to land anyway on a secondary runway. An hour of negotiations between the Palestinian gunmen and the Kuwaiti authorities ended with the release of all twelve remaining hostages in exchange for "free passage" to an unknown destination for the hijackers. The terrorists were permitted to retain their weapons and made a V-for-victory sign with their hands upon leaving the plane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_F...

I think the Church tries to make it sound as though Dieter was in harms way and instrumental in the hostage release, whereas the reality seems to be that he flew a few people around for an hour or two.

The implications are that Uchtdorf was a hero, participated in the negotiations, and helped avert further deaths.

There is absolutely no reference to Uchtdorf or his supposed mission in any of the news reports on the incident. He is not listed as a member of the personnel responsible for the rescue. From every indication, the hijackers didn't speak German or English and the negotiation was carried out by professional negotiators who actually could communicate with the terrorists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthans...

While vague, Holland's story about Uchtdorf stretches the bounds of credibility. Why would a pilot on a separate airplane be involved in negotiations with terrorists in a major international incident?

If Uchtdorf was involved at all, it was likely only to go and fly the airplane home after the hijacking was over. The whole thing reeks of Paul H. Dunn.
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Dieter F. Uchtdorf At CES
Monday, Jan 14, 2013, at 08:04 AM
Original Author(s): Uther
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
For you consideration President Uchtdorf said this at CES today. Starting at 33:00. I transcribed this, so I apologize if there are any errors and I will correct them as needed. Quote:
For those who already embrace the truth his primary strategy is to spread the seeds of doubt. For example he[The Devil] has caused many members of the church to stumble when they discover information about the church that seems to contradict what they had learned previously. If you experience such a moment remember that in this age of information there are many who create doubt about anything and everything at anytime and everyplace. You will find even those who still claim that they have evidence that the earth is flat. That the moon is a hologram. It looks like it a little bit. And that certain movie stars are really aliens from another planet. And it is always good to keep in mind just because something is printed on paper, appears on the internet, is frequently repeated or has a powerful group of followers doesn't make it true. Sometimes untrue claims or information are presented in such a way that they appear quite credible; however, when you are confronted with information that is in conflict with the revealed word of God remember that the blind men in the parable of the elephant would never be able to accurately describe the full truth. We simply don't know all things. We can't see everything. What may seem contradictory now may be perfectly understandable as we search for and receive more trustworthy information. Because we see through a glass darkly we have to trust the Lord who sees all things clearly.
http://www.lds.org/broadcasts/watch/c...

The whole talk is about finding and knowing truth. There is a little more both before and after this quote. Starting at about 30:00.

It is always great to hear what the Lord is revealing through his servants the prophets in our day and age.
For those who already embrace the truth his primary strategy is to spread the seeds of doubt.
The Devil stands behid doubt. So doubting is giving in to the Devils temptations. I shall henceforth cease to doubt! I understand that I can't find truth if I doubt.
For example he[The Devil] has caused many members of the church to stumble when they discover information about the church that seems to contradict what they had learned previously.
It's the Devil who causes members of the church to "stumble"! Logic and reason are the tools of the Devil, while shuffeling away undesired thoughts and repeating mantras is the Lords way.

Shame on the members who have problems with the beloved and revered prophet Joseph manipulating little girls into secret marriages. It was not about sex, and there is no evidence he had sex with them, and if he did he was just doing the will of the Lord.
If you experience such a moment remember that in this age of information there are many who create doubt about anything and everything at anytime and everyplace.
What a great comfort, and explanation!
You will find even those who still claim that they have evidence that the earth is flat. That the moon is a hologram. It looks like it a little bit. And that certain movie stars are really aliens from another planet.
More great, inspired and to the point examples that comforts me so strongly I want to shout "Hosanna". Thanks for revealing that people whom believe the critics are less intelligent than those who keep believing!
And it is always good to keep in mind just because something is printed on paper, appears on the internet, is frequently repeated or has a powerful group of followers doesn't make it true.
Oh, isn't it?? Dang! I believed so up until the very moment the Lords annointed revealed othervise. It is clear that pure intelligence is streaming forth here.

Thank God the Book of Mormon is printed on paper, that FAIR/FARMS/LDS.org appear on the internet to strenghten faith, the church teaches me daily rituals of repetion to keep the faith, and that we are part of the fastest growing church upon the face of the earth!
Sometimes untrue claims or information are presented in such a way that they appear quite credible; however, when you are confronted with information that is in conflict with the revealed word of God remember that the blind men in the parable of the elephant would never be able to accurately describe the full truth.
I now understand that there is a connection between elephants and untrue information. Only those who believe can see clearly!
We simply don't know all things. We can't see everything. What may seem contradictory now may be perfectly understandable as we search for and receive more trustworthy information. Because we see through a glass darkly we have to trust the Lord who sees all things clearly.
I am now confortable with not understanding, knowing, or wanting to know. I will trust in the leaders of the corporation of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints!

So to sum it up after removing the smoke and disco lights:

Directly from on high, the will of the Lord, the comfort and succor to the weak;

"Its your fault if you disbelieve, because you can't expect to understand, just to keep clinging on and trusting in the lords annointed ones".
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Uchtdorf, What Is Truth?
Thursday, Jan 17, 2013, at 08:19 AM
Original Author(s): Anon For This
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
Just over a year ago, Uchtdorf said that Book of Mormon people were in Guatemala.
"Thou kind and gracious Father, our hearts are filled with gratitude for Thy remembrance of the sons and daughters of Lehi. Thou hast heard their cries and seen their tears. Thou hast accepted their righteous sacrifices."
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles...

Four days ago Uchtdorf said "Never before has it been more important to learn how to correctly discern between truth and error"
"Now, what is this truth?" he asked. "It is His gospel. It is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ-He is the way, the truth, and the life."
https://www.lds.org/church/news/presi...

No Uchtdorf, here is truth - over 200,000 dead, 83% of them were Mayans:

http://www.cja.org/article.php?list=t...

Here is a truth commission report:

http://shr.aaas.org/guatemala/ceh/rep...

So Uchtdorf, go tell your Book of Mormon fables to the Mayans. Go tell them that their lands are for the Europeans because your God's wrath is on the Mayans.

1 Nephi 13:
14 And it came to pass that I beheld many multitudes of the Gentiles upon the land of promise; and I beheld the wrath of God, that it was upon the seed of my brethren; and they were scattered before the Gentiles and were smitten.

15 And I beheld the Spirit of the Lord, that it was upon the Gentiles, and they did prosper and obtain the land for their inheritance; and I beheld that they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people before they were slain.
Or better yet, face the truth. Your Book of Mormon is fiction. Renounce it and move the Mormon church into a better humanitarian organization. But that is a truth that Mormons will probably never realize.
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Alma the Aviator Saves Hostages, Leaping over Tall Estates on a Single Modest-Stipend
Thursday, Jan 17, 2013, at 08:42 AM
Original Author(s): David Twede
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
Many New Order Mormons (NOMs) and some traditional members feel Apostle Dieter Uchtdorf is the most honest, humble and interesting Apostle in the LDS church. On 13 January, 2013, Elder Dieter gave a church education devotional.

At around 33 minutes into the broadcast, Dieter says the following:
"Remember that in this age of information there are many who create doubt about anything and everything at anytime and everyplace. You will find even those who still claim that they have evidence that the earth is flat. That the moon is a hologram. It looks like it a little bit. And that certain movie stars are really aliens from another planet. And it is always good to keep in mind just because something is printed on paper, appears on the internet, is frequently repeated or has a powerful group of followers doesn't make it true."
http://www.lds.org/broadcasts/watch/c...

True, how true. This may include the opening paragraph of Dieter's biography at LDS.ORG.
On December 17, 1973, the president of Lufthansa German Airlines received alarming news. Five terrorists had hijacked a Lufthansa 737 jet in Rome, Italy, and were making their way to Athens, Greece, with hostages on board. In an instant, Lufthansa's president ordered into the air his chief pilot for the 737 fleet. Thirty-three-year-old Dieter F. Uchtdorf was to take a small group of emergency personnel and follow the hijacked plane wherever the guerrillas took it. In every setting possible he was to negotiate for the release of the plane, the pilots, and the hostages. Then, when all of this had been accomplished, he was to fly the hijacked 737 back to headquarters in Frankfurt.

With fortunately no more bloodshed, this mission, like so many others he had been on personally and professionally, was successfully accomplished.
See: http://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apost...

From this bio, (apparently penned by Jeffrey Holland See http://www.cometozarahemla.org/Christ...) we learn that Dieter flew a small group of emergency personnel to follow the hostages in a hijacked 737. His company president ordered Dieter "to negotiate for the release of the plane, the pilots and the hostages." He was told after having accomplished this, he should fly the recovered aircraft back to Frankfurt headquarters, which apparently happened without bloodshed. Reading the bio, it would seem Uchtdorf was at the center of negotiating, rescuing, apprehending and recovering the hijacked hostages and plane. That's major hero action.

Uchtdorf gave the church permission to relate a story that apparently isn't corroborated in other accounts of the hostage event. See the references & sources of this Wikipedia article to get the facts (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_F...) Still some ask, is Dieter F. Uchtdorf pulling a Paul H. Dunn? Is he as trustworthy as some believed?

What I have uncovered about him may cause more concern. Not only about the junior Apostle, but about some of what the LDS church is doing related to him in real estate dealings. This is preliminary, but so far, what I've found is alarming.

Apparently, the LDS church is buying lots of land in Utah resort and vacation towns. Some of these are in highly prestigious gated residential communities. One is the Red Ledges development (See http://www.redledges.com/realestate/). Homes (estates & mansions) here start at half-million and move up quickly into the several million. LDS inc seemingly owns three of the larger (undeveloped) plots (lot 77, lot 99 & lot 184).1

These LDS owned lots are small enough not to serve for church lots, but large enough to place a nice sized estate upon. Why did LDS inc purchased residential lots in a gated elite community?

The reason they purchased home lots could be, perhaps, tied to Dieter F Uchtdorf. He received the very first (Lot 1) finished town home late last summer (See http://www.co.wasatch.ut.us/on-line_s...)

He bought it for $782,000, and it is a tenth the size (at 0.063 acres) of some lots owned by LDS inc in the same development.

Uchtdorf's home is not his principal residence. That's in the upper-crust North Salt Lake area at 399 Aerie Circle. This primary residence is worth $778,000, and the taxes for it are mailed to the Church's offices at 47 East South Temple St in SLC.


What we see is, Hero Dieter owns two homes worth three-quarters of a million each. Hero Dieter, who quit his aviator position at Lufthansa in 1996 hasn't worked a job in 16 years, but bought two homes with combine worth today of $1.5M. The latest, last year, in the development where the LDS church already bought homestead plots bigger than Dieters.

This is just preliminary, and already I have found other interesting bits which I will address in future blogs. But I'd like to point out that for supposedly a modest stipend, the junior apostle is doing very well. When Uchtdorf tells his religious student audience to beware of critics who are just like flat-earthers and alien watchers (because the internet isn't very true), he's like Alma telling Korihor that his denial of Christ is crazy talk. Alma, we're told, worked for his living without even a modest stipend to obtain fancy estates in high-society resort developments. Readers contrasting Alma the honest with Korihor the agitator feel they can trust Alma.

Dieter asks in the same 13 Jan CES talk:
"How can we know that this truth is different from any other? How can we trust this truth? The invitation to trust the lord does not relieve us from responsibility to know for ourselves."
He assures his listeners that truth is found in the whispering of the spirit which only comes from living the gospel. He encourages them to accept an assumption about how we source truth (through feelings). And goes on to end with this:
"I add my witness as an apostle of the Lord that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God. I know this with all my heart and mind. I know this by the witness and power of the Holy Ghost."
Can he provide any more evidence of these claims than flat-earthers or moon-hologramers do of theirs? Can we trust the hero, mansions-owning pilot? He's no humble-living Alma. He's Dunn.

http://mormondisclosures.blogspot.com...
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Dieter-Lufthansa And Alma The Aviator
Tuesday, Jan 22, 2013, at 07:56 AM
Original Author(s): No Mo
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
In regards to the Jesus Smith "Paisley Perestroika now Mormon Disclosures" blog piece on January 16th blog "Alma the Aviator Saves Hostages, Leaping over Tall Estates on a Single Modest-Stipend"

I asked my friend at Lufthansa to look into what Lufthansa said about Dieter. She had never heard of him and she has worked for Lurfthansa 25 plus years and a never Mo. Dieter is hardly the "the most readily recognized and honored commercial pilot to walk through the gates of the very airport he...visited as a young boy" that he describes himself in his Mo apostle bio.

Here is what she had to say. She had never heard of him until I provided the link. (German is her first language, although she is fluent in English and Italian.)

Her email:
"I have read all about this man in the internet, but only "Die Kirche Jesu Christi der Heiligen der Letzten Tage" (name of the mormons here) tries to describe him like a hero.

In our LH [Lufthansa] inside chronics you just get informed that he was in the german airforce and got his liscence as a Kampfpilot in the US 1962. Then from 1965 until 1996 with LH. From 1989 Chiefpilot and so also authorized for training and control . But almost nothing about the hijacking. Just that he headed to get the Crew and fly the a/c back to FRA [Frankfurt]. Nothing about negotiation with terrorists - not his job. Like you said , that sounds like bullshit and typical mormon behaviour. Nothing about his religious attitudes."
As a pilot myself, I find it hard to believe that he had a "lifelong love of flying" as described in the bio. He only spent 10 years in the cockpit as a pilot in his 31 years of employment at Lufthansa. I never wanted to work in an office; line flying is why I became a pilot in the first place. It would seem that Dieter had a greater love of money and power.

More making of Mormon myth.
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Uchtdorf: Seeking Truth
Monday, Mar 11, 2013, at 12:11 PM
Original Author(s): Frogdogs
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
Interesting the Jan 2013 speech by Uchtdorf:

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article...

Quote from the article:
Additionally, President Uchtdorf said that Latter-day Saints are "not asked to blindly accept everything they hear." Rather, members are "encouraged to think and discover truth" for themselves and "to ponder, to search, to evaluate and thereby to come to a personal knowledge of the truth."
At first glance it seems like an encouragement for people to think for themselves.

But it's a great example of circular faithening -- as opposed to reasoning. Terms are not defined. The appearance of rationality is given lip service, with an understanding by faithful members that this is the way you get a strong testimony...because you're a rational, thinking person:

Don't blindly accept what you hear. (platitude)

Think and discover for self. (platitude)

Ponder, search, evaluate. (search and evaluate what, exactly?)

Which will lead to personal knowledge of the truth. (what other knowledge could a testimony be but personal, biased, self-confirming "knowledge"?)

In other words: don't take our word for it - take your own word for it that our word for it was right to begin with.

My head hurts.
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Doubting Is Good
Monday, Oct 7, 2013, at 07:25 AM
Original Author(s): Jiminycricket
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
Just had a family member post a gag-worthy Uchtdorf quote in some cheesy word art on FB. Also, beneath the word art: "We must never allow doubt to hold us prisoner".

Here is a quote from an apostle who was sustained as a prophet, seer, and revelator - who was in the First Presidency of the Church:

. . . "When we come into a new field of research that will challenge our due and honest consideration, we should be warned against coming too quickly to a conclusion, of forming a decision too hastily. We should be scientific -- that is, open-minded, approaching new problems without prejudice, deferring a decision until all the facts are in. Some say that the open-minded leave room for DOUBT. But I believe we should DOUBT some of the things we hear. DOUBT has a place if it can stir in one an interest to go out and find the truth for one's self."

Stated by, HUGH B. BROWN, in "An Abundant Life, The Memoirs of Hugh B. Brown", A Final Testimony.

FYI, Here is HUGH B. BROWN's leadership credentials:

Assistant to the Quorum of Twelve . . . Oct 4, 1953 - Apr 10, 1958

Apostle . . . Apr 10, 1958 - Dec 2, 1975

Third Counselor in First Presidency . . . Jun 22, 1961 - Oct 12, 1961

Second Counselor in First Presidency . . . Oct 12, 1961 - Oct 4, 1963

First Counselor in First Presidency . . . Oct 4, 1963 - Jan 18, 1970

So here we are to believe that the LDS Church has TRUE prophets, seers and revelators who have been in a continuous lineage of LDS succession since 1830. All are sustained as men who "speak the words of God."

The first section of the Doctrine & Covenants was allegedly written by God himself. It states in vs. 38: . . . "What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, WHETHER BY MINE OWN VOICE OR BY THE VOICE OF MY SERVANTS, IT IS THE SAME. - D&C 1:38

So now we have two apostles, Brown and Uchtdorf (both in the First Presidency), who advocate two opposing points of view on DOUBT. Yet they speak for God.

There is one oddity that Mormons seem to like and that is that there is always a quote from an apostolic leader that has a point of view to support the point you are trying to make. Yet BOTH voices are "the same" according to the Lord in D&C 1:38?

Welcome to the murkiness that is Mormonism!
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Doubt Your Doubts Explained
Monday, Oct 7, 2013, at 07:42 AM
Original Author(s): Mondaymorning
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
Uchtdorf, now, with the help of social media, has famously said "Doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith."

Translation - When you begin to hear things about the church that point to it being wrong, untrue, or unseemly, please doubt those things which you learn before you doubt what we've told you about the church.

Doubt what you learn instead of doubting what you've been spoon fed.

If you have questions about something such as What did church leaders of the time say about why black people couldn't hold the priesthood, doubt the direct quotes you read from people who were sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators, before you doubt what the current prophets, seers, and revelators tell you about it.

If you ask a question about when polygamy really ended, doubt the clear historical documents that show it ended long after the 1890 manifesto before you doubt us saying it ended in 1890.

If you question whether or not the first vision is a true story as told by Joseph Smith in 1838, doubt the several different versions he told of the story before you doubt us saying the 1838 version is true.

If you question the Book of Mormon as a historical document, doubt the fact there is no physical proof such as swords, bones, and other artifacts from the millions the book claimed participated in the battles before you doubt the version of history told in the book.

If you question why the temple ceremony has changed so much in since its beginning in Nauvoo and feel that it may be a sign of the church changing the ceremony to make it more palatable for the members, doubt your own feelings before you doubt what we've told you.

This is such fodder for the church and tons of 20 somethings on social media. In reality, what Uchtdorf is saying is the exact same church policy from the last 200 years. Before you doubt what we tell you doubt what ANYONE ELSE says about us. Stay away from 'Anti-Mormon' material. Doubt them before us.

Uchtdorf is some hero for the Mormons who have friends like us who have left when in reality he isn't saying anything different.
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First Doubt Your Doubts, Before You Doubt Your Faith
Tuesday, Oct 8, 2013, at 08:10 AM
Original Author(s): Cangetenough
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
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An Open Letter To President Uchtdorf - When Is It Ok To Stop Doubting Your Doubts?
Wednesday, Oct 9, 2013, at 08:50 AM
Original Author(s): Craig Paxton
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
An Open Letter to President Uchtdorf:

Dear President Uchtdorf,

When is it OK to Stop Doubting your Doubts and just go where the evidence leads?

There is a scene in the Wizard of Oz when Dorothy along with the Scarecrow, Lion and Tin Man are standing in front of the Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz having accomplished everything that the wizard had asked of them. Having finish their task they ask Oz, through all of his blustering smoke and fire, to keep his end of their agreement.

But then something unexpected happens.the Great and Powerful Oz starts to hedge on his promise and asks for more time telling Dorothy and her friends to come back the next day.but Dorothy and her party begin to ask questions telling Oz that he's had plenty of time already. Dorothy begins to question the power of Oz and tells him that if he were really great and powerful he would keep his promises to them. Oz quickly responds to her impertinent questioning of his authority by verbally attacking her for daring to question and criticize him.

It's during this time of doubt and questioning that Toto, Dorothy's dog, pulls back a curtain exposing a man hiding behind the curtain, pulling levers and speaking into a microphone. The man behind the curtain, realizing that he has been exposed, makes a failed attempt to keep up his charade by warning Dorothy and her companions to. "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain." Even when the man behind the curtain knowing that the jig is up, admits that he is OZ.Dorothy still doubts her doubts saying "I don't believe you".But the evidence is overwhelming.doubt has conquered faith and given way to pure knowledge. The truth has been exposed that the once Great and Powerful Oz is merely a man with the same powers as any other ordinary man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZR64E...

Those that begin the journey to seek answers to hard questions are bound to receive unsatisfactory institutional responses to their questions. Apologetic answers are not designed to satisfy the doubter but instead divert the questioner away from the path that their question may ultimately lead. Institutional answers are designed to offer plausible alternatives to answers that may lead to disbelief thereby providing a safe harbor where faith can survive. They are designed to support the truth claims of the institution not satisfy the questioner. Their purpose is to help those that doubt maintain faith in the truth claims of the church. It is from this safe harbor that we get apologetic answers such as the 2 Cumorah's and the wack-a-mole, multiple hemispheric models for Book of Mormon Settings.answers yes but these answers never quite quench or fully satisfy and resolve doubt.

Just as the Wizard of Oz attempted to divert attention away from the man behind the curtain, the church uses apologetic answers to divert those who doubt away from answers that lead to loss of faith.

But answers that do not fully extinguish the question.leave behind burning embers that quietly smolder on the back burner of one's mental stove.until some event reignite the flame of doubt again.

Doubt in a truth claim is the first step one must take in our quest to seeking empirical truth.

As Robert T. Weston said.we should."Cherish your doubts, for doubt is the handmaiden of truth. Doubt is the key to the door of knowledge; it is the servant of discovery. A belief which may not be questioned binds us to error, for there is incompleteness and imperfection in every belief. Doubt is the touchstone of truth; it is an acid which eats away the false.

Let no man fear for the truth, that doubt may consume it; for doubt is a testing of belief. The truth stands boldly and unafraid; it is not shaken by the testing;

For truth, if it be truth, arises from each testing stronger, more secure. He that would silence doubt is filled with fear; the house of his spirit is built on shifting sands.

But he that fears no doubt, and knows its use, is founded on a rock. He shall walk in the light of growing knowledge; the work of his hands shall endure. Therefore let us not fear doubt, but let us rejoice in its help: It is to the wise as a staff to the blind; doubt is the handmaiden of truth."

But what do you do once you've doubted your doubts, what do you do once the fog of doubt has been replaced with the light of truth.should you continue to cling to a faith that no longer stands up to scrutiny?

Like the Scales of Justice carried by the Greek Goddess Themis, there comes a point in our search for truth where the weight of evidence tips the scales against the claims made by the church. Remaining in the holding pattern of doubting our doubts requires a lot of energy.but eventually.given enough evidence, reality reaches a saturation point where doubt gives way to understanding, truth and knowledge. To continue in our doubts once we have reached this point, to hold on to faith when faith no longer makes sense is just wishful thinking in a hopeless lie.

For me, this process took of 40 years mental gymnastics. 40 years of ignoring, apologizing, compartmentalizing, and bending my brain into a pretzel with each new revelation and discovery. 40 years of doubting my doubts. until the weight of evidence was just too great. 40 years of denying the undeniable until I could no longer deny to myself that something in the church was just not right. That its claims just didn't add up.

When is it ok to just accept that the pieces to the puzzle will never fit together no matter how much faith one has? When is it ok to allow oneself to ask the question...."What if the church isn't what it claims to be?" When is it ok to accept the answers to the questions that your doubts have led you to?
topic image
Why Uchtdorf's Symposium Speech Has It Exactly Backwards
Tuesday, Mar 11, 2014, at 07:32 AM
Original Author(s): Saul
Topic: DIETER F. UCHTDORF   -Link To MC Article-
President Dieter F. Uchtdorf gave a keynote address at the church history symposium last week, centered around the topic of being patient with contradictory information.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/lifestyl...

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/86...

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article...

In essence, his argument goes like this:

The Leaf is Not The Tree - whenever we encounter new information that seems to contradict a long-held belief of gospel doctrine or church history, rather than draw firm conclusions that accommodate the new information, we should remain hopeful that yet undisclosed information will soon arrive to explain the contradiction.

This cautionary stance is probably prudent in almost any information quest. I prefer the term "Provisional Stance" as explained by Michael Schermer in his books, where our approach to new information should be both guarded and open, which is precisely what Uchtdorf is suggesting. at least that is how TBM's interpret the message.

So, I think it is important to look at the broader picture of what this "Provisional Stance" tells us about LDS doctrine and history, and how Uchtdorf's plea has it exactly backwards. Many of you are familiar with the B. H. Roberts indepth study of the authorship problems of the book of Mormon in 1912; Roberts presented his findings, disturbing as they were, to the top quorums of the church; the response was exactly the same as Uchtdor's advice - we must be patient until new information surfaces that explains these disturbing implications.

Fast forward to 1970, and we have Hugh B. Brown working with Hugh Nibley and Egyptologist to look into the newly obtained Egyptian papyri known to be the source of the Book of Abraham. The clear implication was that the "translation" was not even remotely connected to the content of the papyri; Hugh B. Brown made an appeal to the top quorums to remove the Book of Abraham from the standard works and abandon doctrines closely tied the book; the response was exactly the same as Uchtdorf's advice - we must be patient until new information surfaces that explains these disturbing implications.

Then we have the surfacing of the Kinderhook plates, tested in 1985 and proving they were clearly a hoax, the emergence of new information about polygamy, and the ever growing lack of evidence for anything related to the historicity of the Book of Mormon. As the counter evidence grows, the consistent response is exactly the same as Uchtdorf's recent appeal - be patient until new information arises to explain all of the contradictions and disturbing implications.

This official stance of patience amidst mounting contradictory information; of being open to new information but guarded in our response to that information, both explains how the top quorums can remain ardent believers AND absorb massive amounts of counter evidence to their faith claims. If they are truly convinced that time will vindicate them, then it does not matter how convincing the new information becomes.

What they are not acknowledging, and what they need to see before any progress can be made, is that time has done exactly the opposite. Time has only and consistently vindicated the counter information. New information continues to build up AGAINST the faithful stance. Despite thousands of man-hours of research and apologetics, there is no NEW information that "resolves" the earliest occurrences of emerging contradictions.

This is why Schermer's concept of "Provisional Stance" works and Uchtdorf's "Cautionary Stance" does not. The provisional stance allows for new information, once confirmed, to supplant prior firmly held beliefs with new adjusted beliefs about the real world. Uchtdorf's "Patience but Open" advice has nowhere to go; one must remain patient forever, denying the mounting evidence in perpetuity. Where is there room for progress in Uchtdorf's stance?

We have now had over one hundred years of "Let's wait upon the Lord to bring to light the information that will resolve these inconsistencies and contradictions," and during that time, new information HAS come to light to further confirm those same contradictions. Is it just a matter of more patience for more time? At what point to we look at the mounting evidence and say "the further light has come, and it confirms that we were wrong?"

I would think the top quorums would see the irrationality of their "Patient but Open" stance and realize that the truth has been revealed. The truth is that they are part of a fraud, and it is time to acknowledge that their patience has already borne its natural fruit. Further patience is delusional.
 
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Why Uchtdorf's Symposium Speech Has It Exactly Backwards
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  · WOMEN AND MORMONISM - SECTION 1 (24)
  · WOMEN AND MORMONISM - SECTION 2 (25)
  · WOMEN AND MORMONISM - SECTION 3 (37)
  · WORD OF WISDOM (7)
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AVOBASE

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