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EX-MORMONISM SECTION 1
Total Articles:
50
A very large selection of posts made by those in recovery from Mormonism. Culled from throughout the Ex-Mormon Communities.
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For the first 29+ years of my life, I was an ultra-tbm. I completely believed and accepted that Mormonism was, indeed, God's "true" church here on earth. Unfortunately, after I started taking a deeper look at the roots of Mormonism, it didn't take me long to realize I knew very little of the true story of Mormonism and it wasn't too long after that I lost all belief in Mormonism.
For quite some time, I couldn't understand how anyone who knew the whole story could believe in Mormonism. It was so obviously fraudulent! But, over time, I've come to understand that the determining factor of belief or unbelief is not information, but the underlying "rules" that a person embraces when interpreting information. In other words, what truly led me out of Mormonism is not the raw information in and of itself, but how I interpreted that information based on my personal set of "rules".
So, I boiled some of these rules down to my own personal "8 Simple Rules" that led me out of Mormonism
Rule 1: Just because someone says something doesn't mean what he/she says is true
I apply this rule to everyone, regardless of intelligence, point of view, etc. Mormon apologists - many highly educated - have all kinds of explanations for seeming contradictions in Mormonism's history. Some people accept these at face value "Oh, see, there are reasonable explanations for all of these problems!" But for a person who is guided by Rule #1, explanations are only as good as the paper they are written on! A rule that leads nicely into Rule 2
Rule 2: Just because someone intelligent believes something is true doesn't mean it is true
If a high level of intelligence were the most important factor of discovering religious truth, then all - or a majority of - highly intelligent people in the world would hold similar religious beliefs. As it is, the world of religious beliefs is fragmented into thousands of factions, each with its own set of apologists spinning a web of logic designed to entrap their perception of truth upon its strands. There are a lot of smart people in this world who are enlisted in the ranks of the defense of what are often conflicting religious beliefs - quite obviously, not all of them can be right!
Rule 3: Reality-based belief is better than theory-based belief
"Theory" can be used to support almost any belief because all one has to do is come up with an explanation that falls in the realm of plausibility in order for the breath of life to fill a theory's lungs - and plausibility is not all that tough of a standard to reach.
"Reality", on the other hand, is a different beast altogether. The path from "theory" into "reality" is strewn with the lifeless corpses of theories that couldn't withstand the intense scrutiny required for passage. It isn't easy to distinguish between the two because theory-based beliefs are often passed off as being reality-based, but there is value in being aware of when a belief is based in theory as opposed to fact - at the least it helps one avoid the pitfall of holding too tightly to a belief that ultimately ends up being an illusion.
Mormonism is a religion that is high on theory-based belief and short on reality-based belief. The following quote by Daniel Peterson last year in regards to the lack of evidence supporting the Book of Mormon highlights this principle as it relates to the Book of Mormon:
"There is, thus far, little in the way of specific archaeological evidence -- taking archaeological in the sense of artifactual -- for the Book of Mormon. The NHM altars in Yemen may be the best we've got, along with the general accuracy of 1 Nephi's portrayal of Lehi's route along the Arabian coast (via the Valley of Lemuel and the River of Laban, and then through Nahom) to Old World Bountiful. There is, however, considerable philological evidence within the Book of Mormon itself suggestive of its antiquity, and there is a great deal of ancient evidence, artifactual and otherwise, from both the Near East and Mesoamerica, that is consistent with the historical authenticity of the Book of Mormon in very specific and striking ways."
Put another way, there is, thus far, little (read: NOTHING) in terms of "reality-based" information to support the Book of Mormon, but there is considerable "theory-based" stuff out there - spun by none other than your friendly, neighborhood apologists.
Rule 4: The definition of "Faith" is NOT ignoring all evidence that is contrary to what you believe
"Faith" is perhaps the single most abused concept in Mormonism. All one has to do is have enough "faith" and the most serious issues facing Mormonism simply fade away into a backdrop of insignificance. The defect is placed with the person, not with the organization - more on that in Rule 5.
But first, for the Biblical definition of faith (this point is about faith as it is presented in Christianity, not on the validity of faith as a principle and the existence of God), let's turn to the oft-quoted standard, Hebrews 11:1 - "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." That definition, though, is incomplete without reading the rest of the chapter where faith is framed as an ACTION-BASED word. It gives many examples of people who were spurred to actions because of their faith: Abel offering a sacrifice, Noah preparing an ark, Moses refusing to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, etc.
Nowhere does it mention that faith is ignoring evidence that contradicts your point of view. Faith is belief that leads to action, not belief in something in spite of its contradictions.
Rule 5: Faith is only as good as the object in which it is placed
This rule ties closely with Rule 4 - if faith is belief that leads to action, that faith is only as good as the object in which it is placed. After all, if any issue can be dismissed with "faith", then misplaced faith simply becomes a license to believe in error. Scrutinizing information that has the potential to contradict your belief system does not represent a lack of faith; rather, it's a great way to keep "faith" from trapping you into a false paradigm.
If you ask a Mormon why there is "little in the way of specific archaeological evidence
for the Book of Mormon" as Dr. Peterson stated, some will say "it has to be that way - if not, there would be no need for faith!" Faith becomes an escape hatch for belief systems knee-deep in errors.
Rule 6: Spiritual experiences alone do not lead to religious truth
This rule strikes directly at the heart of why many people stay in Mormonism regardless of the issues. People have certain spiritual experiences that they take to mean the Church is "true" beyond a shadow of a doubt. It is not my place or my desire to tell people what God has or hasn't revealed to them, but one thing I strongly believe is that Mormons are not the only people who believe God has revealed the truth to them.
People in religions around the world don't go around dedicating their lives to their religion for trivial reasons - they believe it is for a higher cause. I'm willing to bet that if I went and talked to 10,000 leaders in various religious organizations around the world, a good number of them would give me a similar answer: "I'm only doing the will of God - He as led me here and He has revealed to me the truthfulness of this work. I see His hand in this work."
I'm not God, so I'm not going to pretend I know why this phenomenon exists. But it is apparent that spiritual experiences can result in many, many different interpretations of truth. And, no matter how much a person claims that their spiritual experiences have led them to know their path is the way to truth - and no matter how sincere they are in that belief - that doesn't automatically mean that they are right. And if that's the case, I believe one shouldn't base one's beliefs 100% on spiritual feelings.
Rule 7: Everyone's beliefs are grounded in logic
In the world of Mormonism, logic is often turned into the "bad guy", but the reality is no one can escape logic. People who rely solely on spiritual experiences for the basis of their testimony are relying on logic as well, regardless of whether or not they choose to see it that way. They still have to logically conclude that the spiritual experiences that they've had must mean that the Mormon church is "true". They are using logic to determine that there is NO other possible explanation for their experiences. They are using logic to decide they don't need to consider any other information (i.e. - DNA, archeology, etc) in determining the truthfulness of the Church. Everything that a person believes has to pass through his or her own personal firewall of logic!
Some people claim that "logic and reason will never discover truth." Although this might be true on some levels, I disagree with it as a rule that can be consistently applied to all situations. First, as it relates to Mormonism, I disagree with the unstated assumption that spiritual experiences ALONE are a better way to discover truth - see Rule #6. Second, because even the meaning of spiritual experiences must pass through one's personal system of logic. Finally, I disagree because sometimes (though certainly not always) logic does discover truth. One can use logic and reason to determine the truth about whether or not Joseph Smith married other men's wives, or whether or not he revised revelations, or that the American Indians are primarily (probably even entirely) descendants of Asians, or that the papyrus fragments in existence today were not written in Abraham's time. All of these are truths that have been determined through logic and reason! The real question isn't whether or not these things are true,but what will one do when determining the significance of this information?
Rule 8: I will not allow other people to dictate my life
This rule is what gives meaning to all the other rules - at least in regards to Mormonism. After all, what good is it to know something is false if you aren't willing to abandon the falsehood? Many here have felt the intense pressure applied by family and friends when they discover you no longer believe. Too often, in their eyes, "good" is defined relative to belief in Mormonism - it doesn't really matter what type of life you lead, if you don't believe in Mormonism, you are in the grips of evil!
This outside pressure can vary in intensity depending on one's personal situation and it causes some people to live a life that is not in harmony with their underlying beliefs - an "active" Mormon who doesn't believe in Mormonism's claims of truth. I will not fake belief to appease anyone because as soon as I do so, I have lost control of my life and, at that point, what good is that kind of life?
Each of us at some point must decide if we will live life on our own terms or if we will live it on someone else's terms. For some people, this rule is easy to live by, but for me it has been extremely difficult - and, after reading this board for quite some time now, I don't think I'm the only one who has struggled with this issue. Too many people feel their belief system is superior to your own, even when it is riddled with issues that contradict the "simple rules" that you live by
Any other rules that you live by that caused you to lose you belief in Mormonism?
| An old roommate of mine at BYU called today out of the blue. It was great to talk to him since it's been many years since we've talked in any form, other than the annual Christmas card exchange. He was calling to confirm a rumor he'd heard concerning another mutual roommate's marital problems. I confirmed the marital problems, which in large part have been caused by this roommate's leaving the church.
Later in the course of the conversation, he told me how happy he was with his life and he bore his testimony to me, almost as though he wanted to save me from the same fate as our old roommate.
I have always really liked and admired this guy, not because he's been a bishop or is currently a High Councilman, but because he is such a genuinely nice guy. For the first time my respect and admiration for him turned to pity-pity that the happiness he feels in life is rooted in legend; pity that the most important thing to him, other than his family, is simply a huge fraud.
How do I tell a person who is so happy with his Mormon life that he's being lied to? How do I burst the Mormon bubble of someone for whom I really care? Proper etiquette tells me not to say anything-to be respectful of his beliefs. Friendship tells me to share with him what I know to be true-not unlike his testimony bearing to me.
Pity leaves me feeling empty.
| Last week I went to lunch with a friend who is very TBM. She's had a rough time the past few months, and I've shed a few tears myself over somethings so a lot of the time we get together just to "commiserate". Somehow the topic turned to religion and the temple changes came up. I made the comment that I probably knew about them before she did and she asked how. I told her about this board and she wanted to know how this board would know these things so fast. I told her there is an entire network of completely active, non-believing saints out there and many are in leadership positions so things get here fast. She made the comment in my topic line.
I told her that actually the opposite was true. People generally don't come here to harass or because they can't just leave it alone. I told her of the love bombing that goes on, I told her of the threats some peoples' families have received, kids being ostracized in school, etc., and that this was more of a place of healing and recovery than harassment to the church. It was like a light turned on in her thought process. To her credit, she did admit that she just realized what that all must feel like to someone who felt they had been lied to, deceived, given their complete trust over to something they later felt to be a fraud, and etc.
I just had to wonder how many "saints" are happily going around out there love bombing, getting superiority complexes when they remain "strong" and someone else doesn't, and etc. without realizing the effect they are having on people they called friends, neighbors, family members for years. I am ashamed to admit I did that once as well and at times can't hardly fathom the fact that I was so blind to what I was ACTUALLY doing.
| I wrote this a few years ago, and it has been helpful to some people. Thought I'd share it with you. I wrote a second essay on the same idea a few months ago; I'm including it here too.
Why I am a Better Mother (Now That I'm Not a Mormon) December 2002
- I can accept and value my children for who they really are, not who I want or need them to be. They can live their lives according to what they want---not according to someone else's one-size-fits-all "divine plan."
- I can teach my children to have confidence in themselves and their own thoughts, feelings, desires, and ideas---that they are inherently good and they can trust themselves.
- I can encourage my children to follow their own inner voice and do what is right for them.
- I can really listen to them without trying to convince them that my ideas---or any other "authority's"---are right, and I can offer them guidance because I have listened.
- I can model for my children the thoughtful development of my own understanding of God and a moral code, and encourage them to do the same.
- I can allow them to make their own choices and decisions---and also allow them to take the responsibility for them.
- I can allow them to make mistakes without shaming them for them. I can discuss the choices they have made, their results, and the reasons they may want to make a different choice in the future.
- I don't have to feel shame about the mistakes my children make---or worry about what others' will think of me.
- I can openly discuss sexuality with my children and talk about how to responsibly and joyfully express this essential element of their humanity-with emphasis on the joy.
- I can spend more relaxed time with my children doing things we all enjoy because I'm not rushing off to meetings, stressed out over my church calling, or trying to force them to go to church.
- I can teach my children to value the inherit dignity and worth of every human being, regardless of their race, religion, gender, or choice of partner.
- I can give my children an example of a strong, independent, woman who owns her personal authority and is learning to express her individuality, and who supports them in doing the same.
- I can enjoy my children for the unique, marvelous human beings they are, with reverence and gratitude for the opportunity to be their mother.
| There is several things that have struck me as i have read these articles , firstly everything i have read is totaly genuine , not one piece of propaganda rubbish have i found .
Second , there is a very high degree of intelligence to be found in certain places , post mormons are unique because they had to pick there way thru a maze of what could be described only as spiritual deceptions , all the time living under threat of hell , perdition , loss of all eternal family links ect, i do not think there can be any fear that can come upon a man that is greater than believing that he will spend the rest of eternity in hell because of his actions here , mormons who once believed in there church would have had to face this fear at some stage as they progressed to a true faith in living by there own conscience , it may be said that it took a lot of faith to be a mormon , then again , it took even more faith not to be one once you believed there was something wrong with it .
It has occured to me what real faith is , real faith is totaly believing in God according to the conscience of your own mind , carnal faith as i would call it requires all kinds of props , baptisms , priesthoods , endowments and so in , its carnal faith that is the root cause of all religeous fanaticism and wars of a religeuos nature .
if we are living by faith without the support props of a carnal religeon how can we know that we are progressing or that are sins are being forgiven as we move forward , i feel that the answer to this ls in human relationships , a sign that we are getting closer to God is that we are getting closer to each other , i actually belive that heaven begins when two or more people begin to entwine emotionaly to the point where feelings of total trust begin to ensue , the celestial kingdom begins with just you and I as it happens , there is one thing i am sure of , it has nothing to do with being married , altho i exspect you can be married there if you so want to be .
Another thing i have found reading these pages is fellowship , for the last 15 years i have sat thru mormon meetings in total boredom and decadence , simply because i had a totaly different philosophy on life than what was being preached , it got so bad that i had only to stand to speak before a few wrotten eggs where coming my way , that seething anger soon began to come out when they realized that i did not see God or heaven as they did , and how ugly it was , at least now i can say as i like and hopefully find some receptive ear , thanks for your enhancing web page.
| I was once JUST LIKE YOUR WIVES, so here's what my husband did that helped me get over Mormonism:
- Don't buy into your wife's craziness by getting angry!
- Stay as CALM as you can.
- Realize that THEY'RE the crazy one, not you, but please don't call them CRAZY. (Use the "I" messages we were all taught in Communication 101 ... "You" messages are simply pouring gas on a fire.)
- Think of this situation as if you are dealing with an alcoholic who is in denial. You can't tell them they're wrong. You can't shout at them. They won't listen.
- You can INTERVENE with the drug called Mormonism. You need to recognize it for what it is -- an addiction that is threatening your marriage. (Don't TELL this to your spouse -- just KNOW this is how it is).
- Be patient and tolerant.
- Constantly reiterate your desire to work things out. ("I" messages. I care. I want to work things out. How can we work things out? What do we need to do? I love you.)
- Show extra love and support. (Your normal level of love and support might not be enough now. Be SUPER SPOUSE.)
- Talk about finding ways to compromise. (See #7)
- Acknowledge that you know how difficult this must be for them, the "death" of all their dreams and plans.
- Show empathy, not anger.("I" feel for you.)
- Remind them of other things in life that came as a surprise and turned out OK. (I'm sure you can think of examples.)
- Tell them you BELIEVE this is going to be OK, and that over time it will work out if you both stick together and don't do anything rash. (It WILL take time to work out the emotions).
- Continue to pray for guidance together (Ask your "higher power" for help even if you don't believe in a higher power.)
- Tell them if it ever came down to an "ultimatum" you would choose them vs. leaving the church. And mean it. (My husband did this and it led me out of the church. His graciousness and commitment to our marriage showed me how petty I was being by placing the CHURCH above him!!! I never issued the ultimatum.)
Bottomline: You've got to be the leader, the SANE one. Do not expect SANITY from your spouse, at least at first. They are not CAPABLE of sanity because of the brainwashing from the church.
Do not argue with them or try to PROVE the church wrong. Be an example of patience and tolerance. My experience is proof that if shown a better, more positive way to live your wives will find the exit door of Mormonism.
| I've been told this a few times by TBMs that I've dealt with. This is one of the things that pushes my buttons the most.
If I never truly had a testimony, then I put myself through Hell on Earth for years for NOTHING. It's unfortunate that TBMs can't realize how denigrating this statement is.
What are some of your favorite things TBMs have said to be able to reconcile how you could possibly have left The One True Church©?
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I know it's supposed to be some way to dismiss a disbeliever, but think about it a second. If you never really had a witness to the truthfulness of the Mormon gospel, even though you gave it the best you had, then what are you supposed to do? Go on pretending? Well, yeah, that would make them happy, wouldn't it, even though it's dishonest. Because then they wouldn't have to deal with the possibility you're right.
Imagine bishops opening every F&T meeting with, "Look, if you don't really believe, if the Spirit hasn't witnessed to you, it's wrong to pretend otherwise. This church works for some people but not others. It's best if we stop wasting each other's time." That would go over big with the brethren.
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You have felt felt the Spirit testify the truth to you. You know that you have. You still have a testimony. It's in there somewhere, deep down, under layers of sin/pride/intellectualism/hedonism... Feed the mustard seed. Let it free. You know the church is true! You know!
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They know better than me what I think and feel and why! I think this is the legacy of black and white thinking. If the morg is 100% right then anything else is wrong if it isn't the same (logical enough).
I hate being stereotyped by those who have no idea what I am like.
The sacrifices we make for REAL truth (or at least rejecting the lies).
| From The Mail Tribune Online:
Citing what they describe as their difficult and emotionally painful journey away from the Mormon church, a group of people have
started a "former Mormon" support group to share stories, provide friendship and talk about their new faith, which for most is
fundamentalist Christian.
"I lost every friend I had, and my husband was the only person I could turn to in this area," said the groups founder, Melissa
Thiring, 25, of Medford. "I started this group to raise awareness and bring healing for people who may be going through the same
thing."
The support group meets at 2 p.m. on the first Saturday of each month at the Upper Room Cafι at Ashland Christian Fellowship, at
Hersey and Oak streets in Ashland. The next meeting is Saturday.
Mormons believe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is "the only true church on the face of the Earth," said Thiring,
and those who leave are "deceived."
Said Thiring, "one is very often faced with being disowned or divorced."
Another group member, Robert Kiser, 48, of Medford, left 15 years ago and is now a fundamentalist Christian. His family "wrote me off," though they would still speak to him, just not about religion. It was painful, he said, but hes "grown accustomed to it."
http://www.mailtribune.com/archive/20...
| There's always duty. And it gets in the way of happy times.
For instance, instead of going in an evening walk with the family, there's home teaching to do.
Instead of family vacations to far away places, there's tithing to pay.
Instead of having all of your family and friends attend your wedding, there are only spaces for temple recommend holders. And children are not allowed.
Instead of treating the natural world with care and respect, there is the notion that Jesus is coming soon anyway and he'll clean everything up. So why worry about conservation?
Instead of cherishing extended family time together, there are temple visits, planning meetings, interviews, and more.
Instead of a few years of single adulthood during your 20s; time to explore, get an education, travel, meet new people, and forge an independent identity, there is heavy pressure to marry young and have children right away, even before you can afford them.
Instead of time for community volunteering, following a passion, or always having time to learn new things, there are assignments, callings, and more meetings.
In a nutshell, the greatest cost of Mormonism is the lifetime of lost opportunities.
| I was a BIC Mormon for decades. From early childhood until my apostasy, I endured hearing to the end, "I know the Church is true". This refrain was so commonplace that it became boring and lost meaning. I grew up "knowing", because my parents loved me, I loved them, and they said the Church was true. I had no reason to think otherwise. If the church were true, and all Mormons knew it, then why was it necessary to repeat the obvious so often? Was there a problem?
At the Language Training Mission (now MTC), missionaries, including myself, were admonished to testify, "I know the Church is true", even if all we had was belief. "I believe..." was not good enough. Perhaps the pretense of "knowing" is more persuasive than just honestly believing.
Of what do millions of "knowing" Mormons bear witness each month? Do the words of Moroni (Moroni 10:3-5) and Jesus Christ (D&C 9:8,9) really work? Furthermore, what is meant by another refrain, "I know that President Gordon B. Hinkley is a true prophet of God"? Just how many divine, new prophecies does President Hinkley announce anyway? If the answer is zero, then what makes him a true prophet of God?
My "Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary" offers twenty-five definitions for the word "true". I like the archaic version, meaning "truthful". With a little revision, our refrains become, "I know the Church is a truthful church" and "I know that President Gordon B. Hinkley is a truthful prophet of God".
I hereby offer another refrain, ready for adoption into the true church (inspired by myself), "I know God is truthful". God must be truthful, or He could not be real. Would a truthful god, (God), direct any church whose prophets were less than truthful? Additionally, if God knows all, even before all happens, then His published prophecies must happen without prior- or post-event emendation.
God, according to the current Mormon version has a resurrected, physical, Celestial body of flesh and bone. God is not Jesus Christ and never was. God was a man, like some men today, and some men may become gods like Him. Through His literal, begotten son, Jesus Christ, God directs the L.D.S. Church, and none other, through latter-day prophets. According to Mormon doctrine, God's revelations to mankind, through true, ancient and latter-day prophets, are what we must believe, know and live if we want to become gods ourselves, well...almost.
Now comes the hard part, knowing the truth. Starting with President Ezra Taft Benson, and perhaps earlier, we have been told to follow the teachings of the living prophet, as if certain divine revelations proclaimed by expired prophets were outdated, perhaps embarassing.
The abundance of emended, unfulfilled, erstwhile faith-promoting Mormon prophesy is plethoric. Does God issue imperfect scripture with expiration dates? Does true scripture become invalid when God discovers that He got it wrong in the first place? In my mind, God must be perfect and all-knowing; He would not "bless" us with false revelations, nor require that we believe lies.
A FEW MORMON "TRUTHS"
* David and Solomon had many wives and concubines which
was both abominable to and justified by God. In fact
God Himself gave to David his women, except in the
case of Uriah....(Compare Jacob 2:24 with D&C 132:1,39)
* "The only men who become gods, even Sons of God, are
those who enter into Polygamy" ("Journal of Disc..."
Vol. 11, Page 269). However, plural marriage
(polygamy) is not essential to salvation or
exaltation. (See "Mormon Doctrine" by Bruce R.
McConkie, former Mormon Apostle)
* "True does not mean "truthful". For instance,
President Gordon B. Hinkley told Time magazine, in
August 1997, that he did not know if God was once a man
like men today. Nor did he know if this teaching was
emphasized. He said he did not know much about it.
At the ensuing L.D.S. General Conference, obviously in
reference to this interview, President Hinkley said he
thought he understood this doctrine thoroughly.
By example, we learn that "truth" need not be truthful.
At times, the "truth" is a lie, but still true, if
spoken by a true (truthful) prophet of God.
* "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and
Gentile, Saint and Sinner! When our father Adam came
into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a
celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with
him. He helped make and organize this world. He is
Michael, the Arch-angel, the Ancient of Days! about
whom holy men have written and spoken - HE IS OUR
FATHER AND OUR GOD WITH WHOM WE HAVE TO DO...."
(Brigham Young, former Mormon Prophet--See "Journal
Discourses", Vol. 1, Pages 50, 51)
From this we "learn that Adam is God; that God
entered the Garden of Eden as a resurrected god; and
that God was a polygamist. Is this Mormon "truth"
still true?
* "There is not one historical instance of so-called blood
atonement in this dispensation, nor has there been one
event or occurrence whatever, of any nature, from which
the slightest inference arises that any such practice
either existed or was taught." (Bruce R. McConkie,
former Mormon Apostle from his book, "Mormon Doctrine")
"And if any man mingles his seed with the seed of Cain
(a black woman) the only way he could get rid of it or
have salvation would be to come forward & have his head
Cut off & spill his Blood upon the ground" (Brigham
Young, former Mormon Prophet as quoted from the journal
of Wilford Woodruff, 1833-1898, Vol. 4)
Perhaps Elder McConkie missed this quote.
* "When all the other children of Adam have had the
privelege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming
into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the
four quarters or the earth, and have received their
resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough
to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity
(black people)"...("Journal of Discourses, Vol, 2, Page
143)
EMENDATION:
"All worhy male members of the Church may be ordained
to the priesthood without regard to race or color..."
(First Presidency, 1978)
Are any newborns today the offspring of "gentile",
white people who know nothing about Mormonism? Has
anyone recently encountered any resurrected white
people?
* The "Book of Abraham" was translated from ancient
Egyptian papyri, by Joseph Smith Jr., by the gift
and power of God, which originally was authored by
Abraham, by his own hand. Was it really?
The papyri found have been a nuisance to the Church
and non-Mormon Egyptologists a long time. Acceptance
of interpretations from non-Mormon Egyptologists, who
claim that the papyri have nothing to do with Abraham
or his religion, fosters apostasy. This stuff is
XXX-Mormon rated. Don't look!
Just what would happen if non-Mormon Egyptologists
agreed with Joseph Smith's "interpretation"? Would
the BofA become another "keystone" of Mormonism? But
of course,... it already is.
The BofA must still be "true" because "the Church is
true (truthful)", and the "true" (truthful) prophet
has not yet declared this Mormon scripture to be of
dubious origin. We must believe (know), read the Book
of Mormon and pray harder.
* "But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob
shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites
shall blossom as the rose." (D&C 49:24)
If molecular geneologies prove, with other sciences,
that American Indians descend from northern Asia,
then where are the blossoming Lamanites? The living
prophet is still saying that the American Indians
descend from Lehi, an ancient Isrealite. This must
be"true". Because the prophet is truthful, he
would tell us if the Book of Mormon were false.
* We must keep the faith that faith-promoting evidences
(more "parallels") will be revealed by F.A.R.M.S., even
though some of these incipient "truths" may disagree
with what is "true" today. Remember, Mormon truth need
not be true. After our faith (credulity) is thoroughly
tested (tortured) we will no longer need truth. We
will "know".
For fifty-six well-documented Mormon "truths", read "False Prophecies of Joseph Smith", by Richard Baer, available for sale at www.utlm.org. No, I do not profit from this publication or from anything else published by the so-called "antis". Speaking about profits, how would these titles be for a new book -- "True Profits of the L.D.S. Church", and "A Prophet's Profit"?
OBSERVATIONS AND A FEW ANTI-MORMON "LIES"
* The true God must be truthful.
* The true church must be truthful.
* The true church, claimed by God as His own, must be
truthful, or it cannot be the church of Jesus Christ.
* Numerous are the divine claims made by the L.D.S.
Church and its prophets, both past and present, that
are mortally wounded.
* The only true church had better be truthful because
God is honest; He is truthful.
In the future, when someone, except my mother, tells me, "I know the Church is true", I will have more questions. Betcha he/she will get a "burning in his/her bosom" and say again, "I Know the Church is true!".
| Unfortunately, most mormon sinning isn't the fun kind.
Lying for the Lord is a requirment. Most mormons are good at that one.
Anther required mormon sin is worshipping idols, meaning temples. Then there's avarice and coveting, clear when mormons brag about their paltry worldly goods and seek to outdo their neighbors. There's bearing false witness when they gossip in the RS room or hold courts of love in the priiesthood bastions.
Mormons are required to bother, trespass on, and harass their inactive neighbors because they secretly sense that no one would want to participate willingly in a church like theirs. No, encouraging compliance requires bullying, rudeness, and spiriting cheap bribes of parishable food items onto stranger's doorsteps.
All in all, I think the church helps only the weakest, most immature adults to lead better lives. That's those who don't have the sense to come in out of the rain. More often than not, the mormon influence encourages insensitivity and out and out cruel behavior.
| I know they're glad to be rid of me. I was trouble from the get go. I used to behave so badly in Primary that they made me a hall monitor (official calling).
I think they're glad to be rid of a person who believes in evolution, feminism, relativism, and the right to free speech.
I think they're glad to be rid of a person who thinks about and talks about good ways to change the temple ceremony.
I think they're glad to be rid of a person who doesn't kowtow to higher authorities. Once I nearly refused to shake BKPs hand. Shoulda......
They're pleased as punch to be rid of someone who didn't pay a red cent of tithing for the last decade of her membership.
They're happy to be rid of a tea and coffee drinker, and occasional imbiber of spirits, mostly because I thought they were all healthy and I said so.
They're pleased to be rid of a lady who wouldn't wear the middle aged Mormon uniform of lace collars and white pantihose every Sunday, who now would probably never wear a skirt to church again. I hate them!
I'm sure you all can think of better ones than I can.
| It begins in the first section of the Doctrine and Covenants and resounds throughout: a voice of warning to all people. Those
who will not hear the voice of the Apostles and prophets will be cut off."
"The metaphor is that of pruning, the
removal of dead wood from the living, fruitful tree. When one considers the difference between a withered branch and a fruitful
bough, the comparison is apt. Those receiving the restored gospel must make a choice: to hear or not to hear the voice of his
servants; to live as a part of the tree or be cast off to wither alone. As this warning unfolds in the revelations, an
interesting counterpoint develops in the lives of those little-known Saints who were there to receive first the words of the
Lord. Many heard and continued, and bore fruit; many did not, and were cut off. There is much instruction in their
choices."
"The lives of some 129 people referred to in the Doctrine and Covenants are fascinating, both for their
human interest and for the way they illustrate the importance of heeding the voice of the prophets."
"There are other
stories of those who, for pride, chose to stray rather than stay. Simonds Ryder, mentioned in section 52 [D&C 52], joined the
Church soon after its organization. Shortly thereafter, he apostatized and eventually led the mob that wrenched Joseph Smith and
Sydney Rigdon from their homes in winter for a brutal beating and tarring. His excuse for leaving the Church was the
misspelling of his name in Church documents; he questioned the authenticity of inspired materials with typographical errors."
"Joseph Wakefield, mentioned in sections 50 and 52, [D&C 50; D&C 52] found a like excuse for turning a deaf ear to
the Prophet. He observed Joseph Smith playing with children soon after working on the translation of the Bible and concluded
such was not the behavior of a prophet. Like Ryder, he was cut off, and his name has faded."
"If we hear and
obey, our fruit will continue as has that of the faithful of the past; if we hear not, then we shall be cut off to wither,
without root. But we must choose, and much depends on our choice, for ours is the opportunity to be part of the fruitful tree
of the kingdom."
- Elder Dale S. Cox, To Hear or Not to Hear, Ensign, Jan. 1993, page 44
How many of you
have "withered" since you left the church?
| A lot of Mormons (and religious believers in general) cite "spiritual knowledge" as the foundation of their belief/testimony. Mine was based on two things. The first was that the LDS lifestyle is a Good Way to LiveTM. I considered family values, Christian morals, and community to be the major "fruits" in support of the church. The second factor was the perceived logic and consistency of the doctrine. I liked being the resident gospel scholar. I made a list the other day of the LDS books I've read, and it was surprisingly long. Everything seemed to "make sense" within the paradigm of Christian theism. If Jesus was the Son of God, then of course he established his one true church. Naturally, only a church established by God has the authority to provide the knowledge and rituals necessary for salvation. There was a clear falling away, and the restoration put everything back together. Every person will have the chance to hear the gospel and be saved. We can live forever as families with God. It all seemed logicalenough, and I probably would have remained in that mode all my life, except...
The undoing of my "intellectual" testimony was the church's constant push toward a spiritual testimony, which is supposed to be the end-all and be-all of spirituality. Only when you've received a witness directly from the Holy Ghost will you have a deep, abiding testimony. It totally backfired in my case. When it seemed obvious that God was never going to answer my prayers and that no special witness was forthcoming, I began to re-examine the intellectual side of the gospel from a more critical viewpoint and the rest is history. Maybe the church is on to something, because it seems very few people apostatize if they honestly feel like at some point God answered their prayers about Joseph Smith, the BoM, or the church. A spiritual witness seems to cover a multitude of sins.
What was the foundation of your testimony? Did you have spiritual witness? If so, how do you explain it now? If you never experienced something like that, do you think a nice fuzzy feeling about the church would have prevented your eventual apostasy?
| From The Church News, January 4 1997:
"An inspired Joseph Smith further explained: 'Cursed are all those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them. But those who cry transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children of disobedience themselves.' (D&C 121:16-17.) Why is it, then, that the apostates will not leave the Church alone? Because they are the servants of sin and have another master whose bidding they now do."
Hugh Nibley explains why apostates can't leave the church alone:
"People who lose their testimonies and renounce the Church or drop out of it, if they are convinced of their position, should be totally indifferent to the folly of their deluded one-time brethren and sisters: if they want to make fools of themselves, that is up to them, but we are intellectually and socially above all that. Well and good, that is how it is in other churches; but here it does not work that way."
"Apostates usually become sometimes feverishly active, determined to prove to the world and themselves that it is a fraud after all. What is that to them? Apparently it is everything--it will not let them alone. At the other end of the scale are those who hold no rancor and even retain a sentimental affection for the Church--they just don't believe the gospel. I know quite a few of them. But how many of them can leave it alone? It haunts them all the days of their life. No one who has ever had a testimony ever forgets or denies that he once did have it--that it was something that really happened to him. Even for such people who do not have it anymore, a testimony cannot be reduced to an illusion.
-Hugh Nibley, "Approaching Zion", page 155
So why can't TBMs leave ex-Mormons alone?
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