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EX-MORMONISM SECTION 2
Total Articles:
50
A very large selection of posts made by those in recovery from Mormonism. Culled from throughout the Ex-Mormon Communities.
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I was just over on Amazon.com, on their page for the Book of Mormon (looking to see if they'd reposted tanstaafl's classic review parody), and stumbled across this review by faithful mormon Cameron Riedel from Enumclaw, WA.
While I have never been one to use the term "morgbot" much on these boards, this is an instance where the reviewer's words epitomize the braindead pyschopathology of a cult follower.
Before I excerpt what this person said about the nature of Doubt, please take a moment to recall the principles of brain-numbing as satirized in George Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm.....
Ready? Now for the Morgbot's nuggets of wisdom:
There is one thing, a warning that I will leave to any half-hearted browser of this book. That is the corrupting influence of doubt that can cause one to forget the reason for pursuing truth and righteousness.
Satan has many masks, and through doubt, and outside influences he tries to keep even the most sincere reader out of the habit of regular study. I saw this influence at work every day when I gave away free copies of this precious book. Those initially contacted would feel and recognize the beauty of the Gospel contained in it, but would later let criticism and doubt creep in and lose their faith.
The devil is real, and would have anyone believe he is not, and that this book is not worthwhile reading. This alone is reason enough to read it, for the honest seeker after truth is aware of his enemy and stands well armed with any knowledge gained about his tactics....
This type of demonization/Satanization of doubt is worthy of a chapter in Elaine Pagel's book The Origins of Satan, in which she illustrated how religious partisans have exploited the arch-enemy concept of Satan/Lucifer, applying it to their opponents as a discrediting rhetorical tool.
DOUBT (or, skepticism) is what keeps the average person from investing in a "can't miss / too good to be true" real estate bargain, sight (and property) unseen.
DOUBT is what keeps the average person from believing that blood-letting is a safe cure for most illnesses.
DOUBT is what keeps the average person from letting that sincere, earnest, solicitous street person borrow your ATM card & PIN number, which he will return to you shortly.
DOUBT is what keeps the average person from regularly plunking down large bills to have that palm reader (or astrologer, or numerologist, or tea-leaf reader, etc) make your major life decisions for you.
DOUBT is what keeps the average person from accepting point-blank the convoluted rationalizations of the Holocaust Deniers.
DOUBT is what keeps the average person from thinking that Reverand Moon is the new messiah, or from volunteering one's 12 year old daughters to new prophet David Koresh, or from committing group suicide so that we can be united with the Alien-Gods in their flying saucer following behind comet Hale-Bopp, or from believing that the evil alien ruler Xenu flew his minions to earth millions of years ago and that we evolved from clams (http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/).
DOUBT is the opposite of naive credulity, the opposite of blind trust, the opposite of being a stupid imbecile.
Mormons use 'Doubt' all the time - appropriately, even. They'd never suggest that being skeptical of those things I've mentioned above is inappropriate, or even inspired by Satan. So doubt is a good thing, they'd concede.
But once you doubt their sacred cows.... well, THEN it's a different story. Funny that, eh? "Apply healthy tools of skepticism to everyone except me" is the policy of Mormonism. It's the most dangerous type of conformist authoritarianism -- remember those Orwell examples I mentioned above?
Doubt & Skepticism serve as the necessary checks and balances against the tyranny of authoritarianism, as Karl Popper pointed out in his pro-democracy books on 'The Open Society'. Brains and rationality protect us against foolishness and unquestioned tyranny.
Being Anti-Doubt is, implicitly, to be Pro-Authoritarianism. And that's exactly what Mormonism wants. Unquestioning Obedience to Authority is what Mormonism considers its greatest virtue; conversely, Doubt becomes Mormon-think's gravest vice.
This warped anti-rationality Orwellian mindfuck is epitomized by something my TBM wife's friend told her about a year ago (after I had pointed out some factual information to her that conclusively and irrefutably disproved certain Mormon claims): "Don't Let the Doubt Sprout!" Well, gee thanks, Brave Brave Sir Robin, for telling my wife it's virtuous to be a stupid fricking vegetable when someone is trying to take 10% of her/my paycheck for constructing ostentatious, opulent, members-only resorts in which to recite macabre oaths and Secret Combinations stolen from Masonry's occult rituals... She might as well have said to my wife: "Don't question the intentions of the Good Shepherd, just get along, little dogie, into that cattle chute. Don't let the blood and rotting carcasses and stench emanating from the other side of the building cause you to DOUBT that we're on a noble journey into this building here...."
In other words, it's OK to use your brain, to be rational, to objectively weigh all sides/claims of an issue or topic, "UNLESS it pertains to our religion." That is the sole exception, the special case, in which it is virtuous to be naive, credulous, blindly trusting, unskeptical, and discount/ignore any and all empirical facts that support 'the other side.'
That, my friends, is a serious psychopathology. Applied to any other realm of experience, even your average Mormon psychologist will readily tell you that believing something, despite the overwhelming consensus of facts to the contrary, is called DELUSION.
'Faith' is believing in something for which there is little or no evidence one way or the other. It's belief or hope in the unknown. Nothing wrong with that! But I'm not talking about 'Faith'..... given Joseph Smith's claims/teachings, and all the massive amounts of scientific / historical evidence to the contrary, we're not talking about believing in the unknown (as would be the case with many religions). With Mormonism, there IS evidence for believing one way or the other, lots of evidence. And it all falls one way: against. The concept of 'Faith' is no longer relevant.
Obstinantly continuing to believe in the counter-factual is DELUSION, plain and simple.
And, to FEAR 'doubt' as an undesirable mental process, or as somehow indicative of a moral weakness - that, is an unhealthy mental pathology.
To go further and demonize objectivity, skepticism, and doubt in a highly selective narrow context (Mormonism only, otherwise they are virtues!) is Cult-Think.
THAT is why Mormonism is bad.
It encourages a dangerous psychopathology. It warps your brain. It discourages you from utilizing normal, healthy, necessary mental processes that we need for survival.
Skepticism is good. Always.
Objectivity is good. Always.
Doubt is good. Always.
Anyone who tells you otherwise (Boyd K. Packer comes to mind here), probably has something to hide, and is trying to deceive you.
To paraphrase the Boydster:
"Promoting Credulity and Blind Trust in Authoritarianism is Far, Far Greater than the Intellect"
Thanks Cameron Riedel from Enumclaw, WA, for your public review of the Book of Mormon, and your public display of Orwellian Anti-Brainism, thereby illustrating by example what is so very very wrong with Mormonism.
| It is said that part of the process of retaking consciousness from Mormonism is “undeceiving” yourself and “unlearning” the
destructive mental gymnastics that are required to maintain a Mormon testimony. In my own process of “unlearning” Mormonism, I
came to a realization today about how Mormonism teaches black & white thinking, and how this is a destructive part of Mormonism.
I won't get into a lot of detail about B&W thinking here, except to reiterate the well-known fact that it is a hallmark of
depression , can exacerbate depression, and is an
underlying tenet of fanatical religious fundamentalism. It is not “zero tolerance for unrighteousness”, as the church may say in
defense of itself. What I realized today is how the church teaches this kind of thinking, making it a common theme of
“righteousness” and following God's commandments.
The Book of Mormon gives the account of Lehi's dream, with the iron rod, a tree with white fruit, a spacious building full of
scornful onlookers, and a number of other colorful metaphors. This is perhaps one of the most widely taught stories from the Book
of Mormon because it contains so much imagery in a compact and engaging story. The basic gist of the story illustrates that there
is one path that leads to God (the tree), and that it is surrounded by danger and intrigue. If you hold to the iron rod that
lines the path, you cannot fail in your journey toward God. If you let go, all bets are off and you will likely perish.
The story adds other themes that can easily be expounded on, such as the great gulf that surrounds the path to the tree. It
appears that nobody is capable of walking the path on their own; and that nobody is capable of avoiding peril and destruction
unless they hold to the iron rod.
The story also describes a large and spacious building inhabited by people who mock and scoff at those on the path toward the
tree. It appears that anyone who is not on the righteous path must either be in the large building with the wicked, or they are
on their way to the gulf of darkness.
This is actually a great story! The only problem is, it is a horribly inaccurate reflection of life, and it sets an unrealistic
standard by which to judge people. The story was allegedly a vision or dream that Lehi had, and the fact that Nephi was given the
same dream via angelic visitation implies that the story was given by God as a metaphor for life's journey. A Mormon who believes
the Book of Mormon has every reason to believe that the story was authored by God, and thereby also believe that it is an
accurate representation of life.
Is this really an accurate depiction of life? Is there really a God to whom we will return? If so, is there really just one path
back to God? Are there really just two groups of people in life; those holding fast to the iron rod (the word of God), and
everyone else doomed in a world of wickedness?
Like so many other myths from Mormon history, the Story of Lehi's dream deals in certainties only. You are either on the one
approved course for mankind, or you are on your way to despair and death. Moreover, if you disagree with any part of the “path”,
you are numbered with the wicked in the spacious building, mocking God. There are no shades of grey or any other color, there is
no hope for anyone else, there is no other path.
This is no different from the First Vision story, in which Joseph says that God & Jesus told him that all churches were false.
Later, Jesus allegedly told Joseph that the Mormon Church is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.
All other churches are false and dead. The list of similar examples go on and on, and can be found everywhere in the doctrines
Joseph taught, as well as in doctrines taught today.
None of this is news to a Mormon. Today's General Authorities consistently repeat that we are indeed at war; Satan is afoot in
the land, spreading lies! When my sister-in-law heard that I had rejected Mormonism, she asked me to consider the possibility
that whatever books I had been reading had been inspired by Satan (I had only been reading materials published by the church &
FARMS, so maybe she was on to something). Mormons believe that the church embodies all truth; anything outside the Mormon realm
is Satan's territory.
Black & white thinking is not just an admitted part of Mormonism; it is cherished and seen as essential to righteousness. If you
tell a Mormon that this is bad, they will defy you or dismiss you out of hand. If your main aspiration in life is “enduring to
the end”, you must rely on certainty, and nothing provides certainty as easily as B&W thinking. Mormons have a very difficult
time understanding why anyone might object to this way of thinking because it is central to their view of righteousness. In their
eyes, when you reject B&W thinking, you reject all that is holy and good.
B&W thinking is also central to many harmful sentiments that Mormons harbor toward others who believe differently. Next time
you're invited to an LDS service opportunity or outdoor party, bring enough coffee & Coke for everyone. Wear a tank top. If
you're a woman and it is especially hot out, wear a bikini top with some modest shorts. If you have a tattoo, make sure it shows.
If you smoke, make sure to feed your habit at least once. Do you suppose people will be comfortable around you? You can bet that
you will be a topic of private conversations later on, even if all you did was let your tattoo show. If anyone brought their
children to the event, you can bet that they will receive instruction based on the choices you exhibit. In reality, none of the
things I'm suggesting have any bearing on “righteousness”, even by Mormon standards. Yet, black & white thinking keeps them from
seeing anyone outside the Mormon culture without suspicion. This only serves to make Mormons even more isolationist, more
elitist, and more dogmatic in their quest for salvation.
I am reminded of a movie I saw last year called What the Bleep Do We Know? While I don't subscribe
to a lot of the metaphysical mumbo jumbo in that movie, I do agree with the comments made by "Ramtha" that suggest we are
essentially incapable of offending God. "How can we, these insignificant little carbon units in the backwaters of the universe,
offend God??" Other opinions were given in the movie that suggest, from a religious perspective, that we cannot continue to seek
enlightenment while holding to the notion that we are all imperfect sinners, in need of punishment and humble supplication, or
worse, that any of us has an absolute and perfect grasp on the will of God. Instead, it was suggested that we have many important
truths to learn about ourselves, our potential, and about finding enlightenment by looking upon ourselves as being a part of God,
and as already being perfect (in all our apparent flaws).
In stark contrast to Mormonism and any other fundamentalist worldview, the message of What the Bleep is essentially that the
world is made up of uncertainty and endless probabilities, yet it contains endless possibilities. It can be anything and
everything that we want it to be because, scientifically speaking, there is no such thing as black & white. I will never be a
student of Ramtha, but I gained a whole new perspective-a healthier perspective-on life when I saw that movie.
Back to the depression angle. I have a keen interest in this because my TBM wife of 14 years suffers from severe depression, for
which she has been institutionalized twice, and for which she takes a panoply of medications. In helping my wife, I have studied
much about depression and have seen its effects firsthand. I have learned a great deal about behaviors that arise from
depression, as well as those that cause it. As complex as depression is, I know one thing: certain behaviors are linked to
depression. In some people, these behaviors result from being depressed. In other people, these behaviors are the actual cause of
depression. Often it is difficult if not impossible to determine which is the cause and which is the effect. One of these
behavioral links is B&W thinking, and every therapist will help their patients “unlearn” this harmful behavior.
As I have come to see what Mormonism is, what it teaches, and the effects of its teachings, I cannot help but conclude that
Mormonism is a big reason, if not THE big reason, why my wife suffers from depression as much as she does. She may be genetically
predisposed to depression, but I find it remarkable that her treatment always involves “unlearning” many of the habits she and I
both picked up in the church.
I also can't help but draw some conclusions about reports of depression in Utah and the possibilities of Mormonism being the
primary cause. I did some research last year about the use of anti-depressants in Utah. Factoring in reports that indicate Utah's
use of anti-depressants is double the national average, factoring in the percent of the Utah population that is adult & female,
and assuming that non-LDS women in Utah take no more danti-depressants than the nation average, I calculated that Mormon women in
Utah are FIVE TIMES as likely to take anti-depressants as non-Mormon women elsewhere in the USA. This statistic assumes that
anti-depressants are used as often by Mormon men as often as Mormon women. If more LDS women take anti-depressants than LDS men,
the then rate is even higher! If my assumption about non-LDS women in Utah was incorrect, then we at least know that more LDS
women are on anti-depressants than most any other demographic. This is incredible.
A few nights ago my TBM father-in-law asked me about my intentions to keep my children in the church. I admitted that I believe
the church is harmful and that I want my children out of the church now. He couldn't imagine why I felt this way. Like I said
above, Mormons don't see a problem with B&W thinking. They think, “How could righteousness cause depression?” Yet, how can so
many Mormon husbands in Utah be so blind to the epidemic from which their wives suffer? This is not new; Orson Hyde chose to
believe Joseph Smith over his wife's claim that Joseph tried to seduce her. It is natural for Mormon men to choose their religion
over the wellbeing of their women.
I choose to support my wife and denounce Mormonism for the dangerous, insidious element that it is. Regrettably, my wife tries
desperately to find an increase of happiness and blessings by drawing closer to the church. Yet it has only brought her continued
feelings of self-doubt, self-disgust, and utter unhappiness. I hope she sees the light soon.
I also hope more Mormon men see the light and renounce their disgusting, godless religion. In its B&W thinking, it has become the
large & spacious building Lehi supposedly had, with all the Mormons mocking those below who are trying to discover their own
self-worth. Mormonism is also a gulf of despair of its own, leading people blindly into unhappiness and turmoil. It's almost as
if Mormons who feel they aren't meeting God's expectations begin to feel the scorn of the Mormons in the spacious building,
pointing down at their imperfections and scoffing. Mormonism teaches that there is not an endless array of possibilities in life;
there are only two. You are either on the Lord's side, or you're following Satan.
If I were to select a metaphor for life in place of Lehi's dream, I would simply illustrate a world without religions, where
people are free to discover enlightenment everywhere. There is no one path to enlightenment, to God, or to happiness. Every
person is unique, with unique insights on life, with a unique purpose. There is no B&W metaphor that can encompass this reality.
“Undeceiving” myself from the B&W lies of Mormonism has brought me more happiness than I ever had in the church.
| My wife and I left the church a year ago. I am reminded that I am an exmormon when I get up in the morning and see my fruit of the looms in the mirror, when I drink my coffee, when I'm forced to act the role at times at work (because it would TRULY hurt my pocketbook), when I talk with my brother, my parents, my in-laws, my old friends, and on and on and on and on and on and on. I'm so sick of every little thing reminding me and plaguing my mind that I left the church.
I guess it doesn't help living in Utah county. When in the hell are these gnawing thoughts on the back of brain going to end? Ever? It's been over a f***ing year. I packed up my family and moved from Provo to north Utah county with some relief. I like my job, the outdoors, and my few friends that agree with me. I've created a gap between everyone else including my family and friends. It's not just their fault, I have a hard time being around them because I have trouble making conversation with them. I'm putting on this happy face trying to do my best with conversation like I'm still the same guy when I know they think I've been deceived, that I influenced my wife, and my kids will be lost now.
I've thought about going back to the Mormon church just to say "what the hell it was the culture I was brought up in." There's no way that would work. Listening to all the bullshit, being asked to read from the manual from some previous dumbass prophet, listening to fast and testimony meetings, and all the other stuff.
The only way to describe what I'm feeling is like a long marriage that ended in divorce. I miss the comfort of the spiritual, purposeful, black and white relationship that I once had. If my wife committed adultery on me and never told me then I would never go through the mental anguish. But once I found out she did commit adultery I would now have that knowledge that would plague my mind and I would never be the same. Same situation with the church. I know the bitch has lied to me and I will never trust again. Yes, I have found "truth" in that the church is not true but what do I have now? I guess I'm divorced religiously and free to choose anything like Christianity, Muslim, Catholicism, even Atheism. So when one of my daughters jump up on my lap and asks "Dad, where do we go when we die?" I can say "Gee sweetheart, we are just dust in the wind." What kind of crazy f**ked up situation is this? It never would have happened if I didn't go on a mission and go to Ricks, find a wife, marry in the temple, and takemy five kids to church for years. It creates confusion to regret choices but those choices channeled me into the direction of having a great wife and kids.
So what the hell is an exmormon to do? Should I quit my job that I like, sell my house that I like, and leave to start anew? The risk of leaving, lying awake at night, not liking the change, and regretting really concerns me. Will it even help? I know it's more than the physical location but will that help mentally? Do I just need to stick it out and stay longer? This is so complex with so many approaches and opinions but which one is right for my family and I? All I know is that I'm soooooooooo sick of the nights of talking with the wife trying to figure out this mess just to go to sleep and wake up to those fruit of the looms in the mirror the next day.
| I am finding it quite amazing how much more I cherish life and mankind since my apostacy.
While I am not sure if there is life after death I have observed that in my TBM days when I was certain that there IS life after death, I was a very lazy person emotionally.
Meaning, I used my knowledge of a life after death to let myself off the hook. I used it as a safety net. If I had a spat with a family member, that was okay, we'd make up in the hereafter and I would emotionally put that person on the "back burner". I put anything and everything I was too lazy to address emotionally into my "life after death" basket. I would have the opportunity to deal with it then. (In between being on that celestial conveyer belt popping out all those babies, heeeeheee)
Since my apostacy, that "safety net" has been removed. I admit it causes me anxiety. However, it has enabled me to grasp and cherish EACH MOMENT I AM ALIVE! Each person I come into contact with has more value. Each opportunity that presents itself, good AND bad, offers so much more value.
I have never ever in my life valued mankind and nature as much as I do now. Boy, was I missing out!!!! I know it is up to ME and me alone to find peace during my stay on earth.
If there is no hereafter who cares, right? WRONG! It has made me care so much more because I want to experience all that I can out of this life. It may be the only one I get.
| Sometimes when we have been speaking with a TBM, or receive a reply to a letter we are left thinking: "WTF was all that about?"
We say sometime or wrote something that seems fairly innocuous and inoffensive, yet a TBM will have taken umbrage and really gone off on one.
For example in late November I decided that I should write a letter to my mother pointing out that after nearly 25 years it was time for her to realise that my non-Mormonism wasn't "just a phase" I was going through, that as I had met my wife a long time after I had stopped being a Mormon that it was unfair to continue blaming her for the fact that I was not a Mormon and had not "returned to the flock."
I reminded her that I had prayed about Mormonism being the "one, true church" and had received an answer from God that it wasn't. I also pointed out that one of the last straws that finally helped break my faith in Mormonism was a remark made at a Priesthood session at a Stake conference by a General Authority. Yes the letter was designed to be forthright and somewhat firm, yet it was loving and kindly, too.
The two letters I received from my mother in reply, on the other hand, were rude, sarcastic, and very unkind and deeply hurtful. Unkindness to me I could tolerate. What I could not tolerate was her being unkind to my wife in the letters. My wife's "sin?" Being a Doctor of Theology and also a Catholic. (How dare she?!)
My mother also denied the reason why I left the Mormon church saying: "We know the REAL reason why you left!" Well, actually, mother, that was the real reason why I left. Any other explanations are pure conjecture based on gossip and lies. Lies from a particularly evil person who had issues with me, but that's another story, and although my mother knew the person concerned to be a liar, she magically accepted everything bad that he had to say about my wife and I when he became a Mormon! -Funny that, how one day he is an evil liar and the next day a wonderful chap! But because he had been baptised a Mormon she would rather believe him than her own son...
Also, my mother denied that what I told her about what the General Authority said. Even though it was during a Priesthood session so she hadn't been there, so was talking codswallop.
She told me that my letter had ruined her Christmas. Even though I had sent her the letter a month before Christmas. The two letters she sent me a week or so before Christmas was obviously designed to spoil my Christmas, but I tried not to let that happen.
I then spent weeks going through self-analysis, trying to understand why my letter had received such a vile, nasty response.
Eventually I realised that I had made a mistake that I think many ex-Mormons might make, especially if we have been outside Mormonism for a long time.
It is a mistake to treat our TBM family and friends as if they were real, ordinary people.
Why a mistake? Because they are not real, ordinary people. They are members of an evil, mind-moulding cult.
Over time we forget that we were taught that Catholics are followers of the Whore of Babylon, that every member of the Church of England are deluded fools, that Methodists are no better, that atheists are tools of the Devil and that everything that happens in the world is, in some way, "all about Mormons."
So, we treat our TBM family members and our TBM friends (always presuming we have any TBM friends after being outside the Morg for so long) as we would real, ordinary people.
And they react as if we had kicked them in the crotch or urinated in the Morg baptismal font. Why? Because they are unable to really, truly function in decent, normal society.
I think that now I know why, as my TBM parents became more and more steeped in the weirdness of Mormonism why their nevermo relatives slowly but surely reduced the number of visits from every other month right down to zero, over the years.
| I've been thinking about this for a couple of reasons. When I got "outed" on FAIR, one of the kind souls sent me a message to ridicule me for being unstable enough to "collapse into a sobbing heap" at the first challenge to my testimony and castigate me for adopting a victim mentality.
Similarly, our friend Louis Midgley spoke of us as some angry and festering crowd of people united only in our hate and sense of victimhood.
I don't feel like a victim. And I'm more heartbroken than angry. Yes, I have had some real flashes of anger, and I have learned that I deal with anger best through humor. I find myself making fun of Boyd Packer a lot lately.
I'm heartbroken because I really gave everything I had to the church. In truth, I really denied "the natural man" because I was supposed to. I lived a life that I was told was what I should want. And it's a good life. I have a good family and a loving wife. I'm not sure what I would change if I had to do it over again. But I'm heartbroken that I did it all for a lie, especially since my wife does not see the lie at all. No matter what, I am the one at fault because I rejected "the truth."
I'm heartbroken because I can't begin to repair the damage done to my children, the guilt they've already been conditioned to feel, the phallocentric worldview that relegates women to being semen receptacles. And the strange mix of feeling superior and yet not good enough. How do I undo that? Someone said it's through example, and I am trying to do that.
But I am not a victim. And I don't hate anyone in the church. If nothing else, this board has exposed me to an entire community of heartbroken people who just want to help each other. Somebody said that we post to get attention. No, we post because we think that our posts can help others or that others can help us. Victims don't do that.
| On a recent post regarding single women in the church I posted some of the things that bishops had said to me about my single status. Keep in mind I left at 24, so all this was said to me between the ages of 20-24. I have finally arrived at the point where I consider it funny (sometimes). I admit there are times when these things still make me feel guilty.
*Marriage will be the crowning achievement of your life. You could win the nobel peace prize and it would never be equal to a celestrial marriage.
*If you procrastinate marriage, you will regret it for eternity.
*Your children in heaven are praying for you to find their father. Their hearts ache in anticipation to be brought into this world under the covenant. Don't prolong their anticipation. (This was a quote from THE blessing that started my exodus)
*You need to humble yourself. Men see you as too proud, too independant to be a good wife. Being strong for your children is good, but practice being led by the priesthood.
*You are eternally obligated to bring forth children, not just in the next life, but here on Earth as well.
*Don't fight the essence of your very soul, which is to find solace in an eternal companionship.
*By not actively pursuing a husband you are denying HF the right to give you the blessings that you are working so hard for.
*HF is not pleased when we manipulate him by saying we are doing all we can and then so blantently disregarding his number 1 commandment.
*Are you doing all you can to make yourself spiritually, mentally, emotionally and PHYSICALLY attractive to the opposite sex? (I had just put on 20 lbs due to stress. Let me tell you, I went straight home and tried to make myself more physically attractive by beginning a new ritual - sticking my finger down my throat)
I used to wonder why these bishops were *inspired* to say these things when I thought I was trying my best to make myself available for dates. I felt it was because HF knew me so much better than I knew myself and he saw that I was to lazy, too proud, to whatever to find a husband. I felt like HF must have shuddered when he thought of me and my unmarriageableness (my new word for the day:))
It's funny how these statements used to affect me.
I used to cling to these statements because I thought my eternal salvation rested upon accepting and applying them. After leaving the church, I found many previously memorized scriptures and hymns kind of wiped themselves from my memory but these nuggets o'wisdom repeat in my mind like a broken record. Sad.
| My pathway to enlightenment was a long difficult journey. Years of cognitive dissonance, mental gymnastics, bending my mind into pretzels to accommodate a religion that just didn’t seem to add up and didn’t offer plausible explanations for difficult questions.
One of the truly interesting experiences of coming into the light was the epiphany I had when I first realized that it was the church antagonists that had been telling the truth regarding Mormon foundational claims instead of the church. The knots in my brain disappeared as I came to this realization. Like the sun rising in the morning... everything just made sense. Sadly, it all made perfect sense.
So much of Mormonism’s claims had been a distortion, whitewash or out right lies all along... and I had been successfully programmed to believe that black was white and white black. I was a TBM, fully assimilated into the Mormon collective. But something funny happened on the way to the Celestial Kingdom. I started to ask difficult questions and I was prepared to accept difficult answers, even if they meant that the church was not what it claimed to be.
One of the hardest realities for me to accept was the fact that the answers to the difficult question had been there all along. But my fear of where those answers might take me kept me from looking. I had been successfully programmed NOT to look for those answers...hummm wonder why? Now I believe that truth can only be accepted as really being true only after it has been subjected to the most rigorous criticism and examination and testing available. NOTHING should ever be accepted as fact or truth without first undergoing a strenuous critical examination.
Bottom line... Mormonism is a fraud because it is built on a foundation of lies. If its claims had been real, I would still be a Mormon.
| | | Why Do TBM Friends And Loved Ones Think We Did Something Hurtful And Offensive To Them When We Left Mormonism?
Article Archived: Dec 1, 2005, at 12:05 PM
Stored Under Topic: EX-MORMONISM SECTION 2
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Original Author Of Article: Anonymous |  | |
Why do they take it personally?
Why are they so often angry and critical of us?
After all, we just did what they do; use our constitutional rights to freedom of religion and speech, and the right to change our mind.
I have often heard TBM's talk about how "angry" former Mormons are but, the truth is that the TBM's are the ones that are much more angry and downright nasty and threatening.
I know that I was angry as a TBM, many times and didn't even know it. Putting people in a psychological, social, mental, religious box is so frustrating it can breed nothing but anger. No wonder TBM's are so angry!
Listen to the tone and attitude of the TBM's. Are your loved ones kind, accepting, loving, supportive? And if not, why not?
Why do they insist on bearing a testimony to us? Do they think we are stupid, have short term memory loss, have forgotten what we have heard hundreds of times? What is the matter with these people?
The most embarrassing, disgusting thing TBM's can do is be unsupportive of our rights. Shame on them!
It is unbelievable that TBM's are so fragile and so ugly and nasty that we have to ignore the whole subject of Mormonism for fear of upsetting them and feeling their wrath! ARGH!!! Mormonism! What a pathetic religion!
| All my life I've heard people say, “I know the church is true.” They explain that some spiritual experience or other testified that it was truth (they often use the words “I could never deny it” and “without a shadow of doubt” along with “I know”).
But what they are really talking about is a testimony, which by definition is not knowledge at all. You can know how to do something, like how to ski. Or you can know that something exists or is true, such as “I know that there is a pair of skis in the garage.” The first kind of knowledge can be lost (my wife won ski races as a child but is now afraid to get on skis), but how do you lose the second kind? If the skis are in the garage and haven’t been moved, can you lose your knowledge that they are there? The first kind of knowledge, learning to do something, is knowledge by degrees: you can ski better than you did before, or you can forget how to ski. But the second kind is a true or false, black or white proposition. You can’t know more firmly or weakly that the skis exist. There is no such thing as “strong” or “weak” knowledge.
A testimony, if it is really knowledge, is the second kind. Once you “know” the church is true, you know. There’s no going back. My wife keeps telling me that she “knows” that it is true, so there’s nothing to discuss. I’m sure we’ve heard people say that, if we leave, we obviously never had a testimony because if we had “known,” we wouldn’t have left. But could these people in the know possibly lose their knowledge? If they really know, the answer is clearly no.
But what does the church say about testimony? Is it really knowledge? Alma 32:34 suggests that it really is this kind of knowledge: “And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand.” But then a few verses later, we learn that this “perfect” knowledge isn’t so perfect: “But if ye neglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out” (Alma 32:38). If it can wither away, it wasn’t really knowledge in the first place.
Here’s Richard Scott on how a testimony is gained: “These and the other truths are certainties. However, your conviction of their reality must come from your own understanding of truth, from your own application of divine law and your willingness to seek the confirming witness of the Spirit. Your testimony may begin from acknowledgment that the teachings of the Lord seem reasonable. But it must grow from practicing those laws. Then your own experience will attest to their validity and yield the results promised. That confirmation will not all come at once. A strong testimony comes line upon line, precept upon precept. It requires faith, time, consistent obedience, and a willingness to sacrifice” (Ensign, Nov. 2001, 87).
He seems to be following the pattern outlined in Alma: Desire to believe (acknowledge that God’s teachings are reasonable, definitely a topic for a future post); live the teachings; ask God for confirmation through prayer. Then you’ll have a “conviction of their reality,” but not knowledge. For Scott tells us that “these things can be lost by succumbing to [Satan’s] temptations.” So, what he is talking about is conviction, faith, and belief, not knowledge.
Things make a lot more sense when we realize that we are not talking about knowledge. We hold testimony meetings to strengthen each other’s faith, not to cement our knowledge. Gordon Hinckley said, “This is the reason, I may say, why these conferences are held—to strengthen our testimonies of this work, to fortify us against temptation and sin, to lift our sights, to receive instruction concerning the programs of the Church and the pattern of our lives” (Ensign, May 2001, 85).
So, the next time someone tells you they “know,” ask them if they think it’s possible for someone to lose that knowledge. If they say no, just quote Alma. If they say yes, tell them that they don’t really know.
| I started to put this on another thread, but I think it deserves its own thread because it's something we hear every once in a while.
When Mormons see that we are comfortable with our decision to leave the church, that we have no regrets, they start to get uncomfortable. They cannot imagine life without Mormonism and the stability that comes with knowing they have all the answers to life's more troubling questions. They expect us to be miserable because that's what they've always been told about us.
When they see that we are not miserable, they are further confused. After all, trusted servants of the Lord have told them that life outside the Church is laden with misery and pain. What they see is that we are doing just fine. But that causes confusion because there is no way a church leader could lie to them. Maybe that's the first lie they discover.
Then when they see that we can openly discuss difficulties we had with Mormonism or Mormons, that we can even laugh at the ridiculous stolen rituals that are actually not sacred or even necessary, they start to become even more uncomfortable. That is something they are just not allowed to do. No matter how bad your bishop rubs you the wrong way, no matter how poorly your kids are treated in primary, you don't complain. Mormons are supposed to sustain church leaders and "never speak ill of the Lord's annointed," so we learn in the endowment session. But that sinking feeling that they have been lied to is so unbearable that they lash out, and it is at that point that they accuse us of being bitter.
That's just cognitive dissonance and projection. It's the same type of denial that takes place in hospital waiting rooms when the doctor comes in and says a loved one didn't make it. One of the stages of grief is denial, another is anger. So it is perfectly natural that Mormons feel sick when they start to realize they have been lied to. Nobody wants to admit that they have lived a life invested wholeheartedly in a carefully orchestrated series of brainwashing activities. I've had that feeling, and it is a horrible feeling. Nobody wants to admit that they spent 2 years of their life trying to bring others into a religion that is going to lie to them. Nobody wants to admit that they came so close to realizing the church was a lie, only to shut out that feeling and dive back into church with renewed vigor. "Gosh, I could have saved myself so much trouble if I had just listened to my gut feeling!"
When we first start to realize that Mormonism is a lie, it's the same horrible feeling we'd feel if we found out that our spouse has committed adultery, and not only that, they brought something cheap into our bedroom that used to be so safe and tender. "How could you treat me like that? I gave you everything I could possibly give and more. I trusted you. I gave you the best years of my life and this is how you repay me? How could you?" Yes, we feel cheated. We feel ashamed. We feel as if there was something we could have done different to somehow prevent it. "How could I be so stupid?" is a commonly heard phrase of wives whose husbands have cheated. It's the same for Mormons who are just starting to find out that the church has lied to them.
Why the comparison to adultery? Betrayal is the same whether it's sexual, emotional, or spiritual. In the case of Mormonism, the betrayal is on every possible human level.
Then the pieces start to come together. All along there were little clues. The late hours. The wrong numbers. The 4000 changes to the Book of Mormon that we were told were just grammatical. The strange perfume. The scriptures that just don't add up. And all along we're thinking, "How could you do this to me? Why me? I haven't done anything wrong."
Then we get angry. Anger is a God-given emotion that aids our memory in making sure we don't get taken advantage of again. Anger is a natural reaction when we find out that we have been betrayed. Thus, the tendency to shoot the messenger. We regularly get attacked for pointing out that Mormonism is a lie. It doesn't scare me any more. I know the pain behind finding out the Mormon church is not true. I also know the bitter frustration that comes with finding out that I've been lied to, that I've wasted money - giving it to people who lied to me and treated me with disdain. So I feel closer to those who are going through the pain of discovering Mormonism is a lie.
It's OK. It gets better. But don't take that on faith. Try it, and if those of us who have left the church are wrong, you can go back to church. Whatever it takes.
| I remember being a Mormon. I had a canned answer for everything. Today, I have to search my own feelings and ask myself how I feel. That requires looking into important issues and doing my own research. It also means that I can change my mind when new information becomes available.
I tend to go with my own feelings on life's important questions. I don't have a book to consult. I don't have an invisible friend. I actually have to ask myself how I feel in my heart. That takes work, but it's worth it.
As a Mormon, I was able to sit back with a smug smile, knowing that I had the answer to everything, or that I could find the answer to anything I wanted if I had the right church manual. Certainly, there was a conference talk to answer any question I had.
If you ever talk to somebody who is deep into Mormonism, it is very difficult to find out how they feel on certain things. They usually answer your questions with memorized answers that inevitably start with, "We believe..." If you ask them how they feel in their heart, they will either say, "The church teaches..." or "The prophet says..."
Press a bit further, and they start to panic. Their breathing accelerates. Their eyes start to dart around. They might even start to get choked up. Ask "So how do you feel?" Point to your heart and say, "In here." An amazing thing happens. They are not able to answer. Let me make it clear right now.
I am not giving this illustration as a guide to picking on Mormons. I find out that we have a lot more in common with our Mormon friends than we think sometimes. I am simply pointing out that Mormons are not able to tell you how they feel without appealing to church doctrine, the prophet, or their "testimony." Simply put, they do not know how they feel. They have never exercised that muscle yet.
The tragedy (among many) in Mormonism is not only that its beliefs are potentially fatal (people have died for this thing) but it retards (for lack of a better word) the human spirit. It stifles the human ability to ponder our own lives and come up with answers to life's difficult questions.
Having an answer to everything handed to you is like cheating on a test. You might get a good grade (read: appear to have convictions) but you're only cheating yourself.
Today, I don't feel like I have to have an answer for everything. And that's very liberating. I've started to ponder life's more difficult questions. I've also stopped relying on magic to solve life's problems. I've become a much stronger person for it, too. I was so afraid that if I ever left the church, I'd feel lonely and lost. Actually, I feel so much stronger and grounded today than ever.
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