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 | Thursday, Mar 31, 2011, at 07:56 AM My Place In Mormon History Original Author(s): chanson EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| A lot of people — upon leaving the CoJCoL-dS — are amazed to discover how fascinating LDS church history really is. It’s not just that the whitewashed history in Sunday School is incomplete and inaccurate. It’s that you’re force-fed this watery-porridge version of church history that inoculates many people from even wanting to study more church history on their own. So when the leaders say, “Don’t go out and read a bunch of (non-or-marginally approved) books about church history!” one very natural response is “No problem!” Until you disobey that commandment and see how interesting those books can be, that is.
One such book I read recently is Todd Compton’s In Sacred Loneliness, a relatively faith-friendly series of short biographies of the plural wives of Joseph Smith. This book gives a good overview of what it was like to be a member of Joseph Smith’s inner circle. The thirty women profiled run the gamut from LDS leaders to people who kind of lost interest and wandered off, from women who embraced polygamy (going on to join another leader’s harem) to women who had close relationships with their pre/post-JS husbands, from women who died in the thick of the story to women who lived long enough to see the CoJCoLd-S give up polygamy. Part of my motivation for buying this book was to learn more about Nancy Maria Winchester — my personal church-history connection — to help find my place in the grand Mormon adventure. There’s kind of a “pioneer day” sentiment of “Wouldn’t it have been exciting to have been there when all of these miracles were happening, and to have known Joseph Smith?” Yet, reading the book made me feel almost more of an outsider than before. I was continually struck by the feeling that I would never have joined this organization. I would never even have considered it. Then I tell myself: It was the ‘Great Awakening’! This was an exciting new trend! They had a prophet who was presenting popular, modern ideas as revelations from God, improving on that dusty old Bible! Yet, I still feel like it’s not a trend that would have appealed to me. Perversely, I can’t imagine my Uber-Mormon mom converting to a wild new religion, either. But my Dad? Maybe… But then I ask myself if that would have been enough to have gotten my family [fictionally transported more than a century into the past] involved in the grand Mormon adventure. Certainly there were cases where a woman was brought into the Mormon adventure more-or-less against her will by a husband or father (like Martin Harris’ wife Lucy, or Helen Mar Kimball’s first polygamous marriage). Yet, this book also has tales of women who converted whole-heartedly to Mormonism — and brought unwilling or half-willing husbands along for the ride. Overall, the book showcases a number of tales of women’s independence and autonomy. It illustrates the strange connection between polygamy and feminism. At a time when women essentially had the same legal status as children (with respect to their father or husband), the central matriarchs of early Utah society were functionally single moms. Their husbands were more like patrons “with privileges”. Of course the women relied on a great deal of material support from their brothers and other male relatives when their absentee (deadbeat?) shared patriarch “husbands” didn’t come through. One other striking thing about the book is all of the death: specifically how many mothers lost many or all of their babies and children. This isn’t a specifically Mormon point, BTW. If you can find a collection of bios of ordinary women of centuries past, you’ll find a collection of tales of babies and children dying. Really — despite the trek west — the pioneers of the American frontier had a better survival rate than families in many countries of Europe that didn’t have plentiful farmland to invade. One line in the book jumped out at me about how we can hardly imagine what it would be like to experience so much loss. That’s true, but it’s because we’re the strange ones. We modern people in wealthy countries have managed to separate ourselves so completely from the daily experience of death that we can hardly comprehend what it was like for ordinary parents and spouses for most of human history. Rather than having more children than you can effectively handle – and then watching many of them die – you can typically choose to have no more kids than you think you can raise well, and more importantly, you can expect that you will most likely see them all live to adulthood. As I’ve said before, this is the number one thing I appreciate about living here and now, over all other modern advances. And it’s a point to keep in mind when trying to understand the experiences of people in earlier eras. Todd Compton’s In Sacred Loneliness is an excellent starting point for an adventure exploring your Mormon heritage! http://latterdaymainstreet.com/2011/0... |
| | Monday, Apr 4, 2011, at 07:54 AM Why I Have Left The Mormon Church Original Author(s): Terry Brown EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| I am the bishop that Simon Southerton, (author of ‘Losing a Lost Tribe’ on the Book of Mormon DNA issues) was referring to in his exit story. Simon was the first person I contacted nearly three years ago when I found out for myself that the Mormon Church is a fraud. I’d like to thank him and his wife for their support since our exit from the church. I now need to share my story. [Story posted at exmormon.org April 3, 2011]
When I was introduced to Mormonism in England in 1963 I was taught the gospel by two young missionaries, who over a period of time presented a number of discussions outlining the story of Joseph Smith – his ‘first vision’; the coming forth of the Book of Mormon; the restoration of the priesthood and other ‘keys’. It all made sense and fit together perfectly, as far as I could see. And what sealed it for me was that if I prayed about it I would receive an answer for myself by the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I followed this direction and I did indeed, as far as I was concerned, receive the witness. Over time I learned more. Eventually I married in the temple, had four sons who were brought up in the church, who served missions and they too married in the temple, as all good Mormons do. I served in a variety of callings over the years, including Branch President when I was only 25, later a Bishop for six years. I was a counsellor to five different bishops and served on a couple of high councils. We as a family had the usual store of ups and downs, trials and tribulations as we liked to call them, and although I had over time become somewhat cynical of some of the church leadership, I had managed to let that go and still maintain my faith. I had always adhered to the counsel of church leaders to ‘follow the brethren’ (they will never lead you astray), read the Book of Mormon and other standard works, church-authorised publications and magazines – (don’t look at anti-Mormon material as it is false and will only allow Satan into your life and destroy your testimony). We went through some very difficult times in the last ten years of our membership. Our third son married a young LDS lady from Japan (he had served a mission in Japan) and there were all sorts of troubles from the start. As we were trying to deal with this, members of the church, including a bishop and his wife, acted most inappropriately and caused in our view the situation to be far worse than it ought to have been. Some of their actions bordered on the illegal with regard to not allowing our son the access to his son that he was entitled to. In the end his ex-wife managed to leave the country and abduct our grandson, aided and abetted by some of these church members. We have had no contact with our grandson now since June 2005. We are aware that some of these members have contact with my son’s ex wife, but because they are under the delusion that they know what is right in our family matters, they are justified in their actions. I was bitterly disappointed that our pleas to two stake presidents and an areaauthority, in trying to get them to understand the situation, went unheeded and nothing was done. They had the attitude that nothing much could be done about it so they ‘swept it under the carpet.’ But we maintained our faith and soldiered on. Over time our son, as a result of all this, ‘lost his way’ and drifted into inactivity. A few years later our eldest son and his family stopped attending church. Finally our second son came to visit us (he lived interstate) to talk to us because he was having a great deal of trouble with some of the doctrines of the church, and with some of the things he had found out about the origins of the church and its early history. This greatly worried us as he had always been the most stalwart of our sons and a real spiritual rock. He had served on the bishopric in his own ward and had become increasingly disillusioned by his experience with that particular bishop. He was released and then called to serve on the High Council. This proved to be just as demoralising for him as he saw very little inspired leadership, and many things happened that really disturbed him. In an effort to raise his spirituality and get himself back on track, he started reading websites such as, ‘Dialogue – A Journal of Mormon Thought’ and ‘Sunstone,’ hoping to learn more and improve his testimony. Unfortunately the more he researched the more he found that the simple story of the restoration, as I have previously mentioned, (and that he had taught as a missionary), bears little resemblance to the actual facts. So by the time he talked to us he had many doubts and concerns. We spent a whole evening and into the early hours of the next day talking with him, and to my dismay I found that despite all of my 45 years of church experience I was unable to counter some of the things he was coming up with. Next morning I gave him a hug, bore my testimony and sent him on his way with the standard Mormon answer to everything – ‘Pray, read the Book of Mormon, have faith and it all will be made clear.’ From that time on my wife and I increased our prayers for our sons, attended the temple, put names on prayer roles and fought against the realization that out of our four missionary/temple sons, we had lost two, and a third (always our strongest) was certainly wavering. In the following New Year, 2008, we travelled down to Melbourne to visit him and his family. Over the intervening months since we last saw him he had continued to attend church, but had asked for a release from his high council calling. When he expressed his concerns to his bishop he had been told to keep it to himself or church discipline would be necessary. This wasn’t exactly the counsel he’d been looking for. I had talked to my wife on the journey to Melbourne, and said that we needed to be open-minded, and should read the documents/books etc that he’d been troubled by, otherwise how could we have any credibility in denouncing it. I felt that he had been confused by anti-Mormon literature and I was sure we would find it easy to refute andget him back on track. I should have remembered that my son has a Masters degree, is highly intelligent and would not be easily fooled by the usual anti-Mormon claptrap. Over the next few days we talked for many hours about the issues that bothered him, and I read extensively the materials that he had gathered. Much to my surprise I found the articles well-written and researched. These were scholarly works. Many of the writers were current members of the church, some of course were ex members, however, everything I read was backed by evidence, notes, thoroughly researched and documented. This was not what I expected to find! By the time we were on our journey home we had pretty much come to the awful conclusion that the church is a fraud. The sanitised story put out and taught to us is totally at odds with the real history. We were disturbed and upset. Our study of polygamy and in particular the intrigues, lies, deception and skull-duggery of Joseph Smith and his inner circle during the Nauvoo period, was an eye-opener. We knew nothing of this. Since that time we have studied almost feverishly every aspect of the Mormon Story and found that on every level it doesn’t stack up. We visited the church-sponsored FARMS and FAIR websites and read extensively the articles put out by Mormon apologists. Their attempts to justify and discredit the authors and articles we had read were in most cases inept and clearly flawed. This increased our knowledge that the whole thing is indeed untruthful. We came to the realisation that the church has from the very beginning changed, covered up, left out and indeed re-written its own history to make it all fit, and that as long as you read only the authorised books and materials, you will remain a faithful member, living in your own little cocoon. We have found to our dismay that when we finally came out and announced how we felt, we were shunned by church leaders and friends alike. The most frustrating line that we would get from church friends was one of sorrow that we had lost ‘thespirit’ and ‘lost our way.’ They couldn’t read what we have found because they knew it would never sway them. We realised that that was exactly the way we had been before we took our heads out of the sand. The whole experience has been bitter-sweet. We feel so enlightened and free of the dogmas, the restrictions that we now see as part and parcel of the church. We also face a sense of loss and bewilderment. At times we wish we were still in our safe little Mormon world, but at the same time we understand that we need to move on. I have decided to detail my reasons for leaving the Mormon faith. I will try to put it as logically and succinctly as I can. I feel that since I was converted on the belief of a simple story, I need to follow that plan of salvation in my rebuttal. 1. The First Vision Joseph’s story of the first vision – there are at least three versions, none of which fully agree with the other. I was amazed to find that in the early days of the church no mention was made of it. This astounded me. It’s the very first thing the missionaries teach! It wasn’t until 1832 that the first version was actually written down in Joseph’s own handwriting. It doesn’t mention the Father and the Son appearing to him, only that the Lord appeared. An 1835 version talked of an angel appearing. The 1838 version is the version that we now accept as the official version. In it he was told not to join any church, as they were all corrupt, yet we now know that he and Emma joined the Methodist Church in 1827! What? The doctrine of the Father and the Son being two distinct and separate personages was therefore not taught until about 1838. If you study the Book of Mormon there is clearly a discrepancy with regards to the nature of God the Father and Jesus Christ (being three in one) because Joseph hadn’t come up with the concept until much later. This ties in with the New Testament concept of the Godhead with which Joseph Smith was familiar. 2. The Restoration of the Priesthood. Again, this is a retrofit. The story of the appearance of John the Baptist to Joseph and Oliver Cowdery, and the subsequent visit by Peter, James and John was again unknown to early church members and wasn’t taught until well into the Kirtland period, and backdated, and then added to the then ‘Book of Commandments.’ 3. The Book of Mormon and its translation. Again, the true story is nothing like the sanitised version as taught by the church. The truth is much more intriguing. Looking into a hat through seer stones was never taught to me, nor is it taught today. Many people have used the same old line ‘How could an unlearned boy have come up with the Book of Mormon? It could only be by the gift and power of God.’ Not so! Joseph Smith knew the Bible backwards. He had been brought up on it. The idea of ancient Israelites peopling America was not new. Many believed the Indians came from the Lost Tribes. The ‘View of the Hebrews’ by Ethan Smith was widely available. Oliver Cowdery was conversant with it. The ideas that I had previously thought were Joseph’s Smiths, were not new. Joseph Smith was a brilliant mind. Yes, maybe limited in some sense by his circumstances, but he was quite capable of concocting the Biblically based Book of Mormon, so much of which can clearly be found to have been plaguerized from the Old and New Testaments. And again, when studied carefully, can consistently be found to have been the writings of a 19th Century man. There’s so much more you can discover if you wish, as there are so many in -depth studies of his work that we were told never to look at – stick to the script, listen to the brethren, don’t be deceived – how many times have we been taught that. 4. Polygamy For my wife and I, this was the issue that above all convinced us that Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God, but was in fact a scoundrel. We read Todd Compton’s book, ‘In Sacred Loneliness’ and began to see how this doctrine (supposedly essential for our salvation) came about. We were aghast at the levels of deceit in his sermons from the pulpit denouncing the practice, while at the same time he and a small inner circle were enthusiastically practising polygamy. The general member ship of the church did not know, neither did his wife Emma until much later. To top it off, he not only married multiple single women, but also many who were still married to other men. Were these the actions of a prophet of God? In the end it proved to be his undoing and brought about his untimely death - much different to the authorised version of the events leading up to the martyrdom. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy until 1904, not 1890 (the official version). If you look up plural marriage inthe current Joseph Smith priesthood/Relief Society Manual, you will find only a small paragraph stating that the practice was ceased by revelation in 1890, and since it is no longer a doctrine of the church it is no longer relevant. This is despite the numerous statements made by every prophet from Joseph Smith down to Joseph F Smith stating that polygamy was central to man’s salvation and would not be repealed before the Second Coming. If you study the previous manuals, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Lorenzo Snow, Wilford Woodruff, you will find no serious mention of the doctrine that these men so enthusiastically practised and proclaimed as God-given and essential to the salvation of mankind. Its as if it never happened. How could this be the workings of a true church led by living prophets.? 5. The Ancient Americas Joseph Smith taught that the native Americans were a lost part of the House of Israel brought to the Americas by the hand of the Lord for His own purpose. The Book of Mormon was the record of this people and their dealings with God. Despite years of archaeological studies by both Mormon and non-Mormon scientists and archaeologists, no correlation exists between the Nephite/Lamanite nations and reality. There is no archaeological, anthropological, linguistic or historical evidence to support the claims of the Book of Mormon despite the best efforts of many good LDS scientists such as Thomas Ferguson. Nothing. On the contrary, scientific study has proven that the ancestors of the American Indian came across the Bering Straits from Mongolia over 10,000 years ago. In recent years DNA evidence has conclusively proved this origin to be correct. Mormon Apologists continue to pump out misinformation, faulty science, and all manner of theories to try to keep the myth alive. The fact remains that the Nephite/Lamanite people never existed, except in the fertile imagination of Joseph Smith. 6. Joseph Smith –Prophet of God I’ve already spoken about the dubious history of the ‘first vision’ and the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, both of which in the light of current knowledge are very hard to swallow, but if Joseph Smith was a prophet, how come so much of what he said and did has now been discredited. If Joseph Smith received direct revelation from God, how do you explain D&C 124 in relation to John C Bennett. John C Bennett was a scoundrel, both before and during the time he was at Nauvoo. Wouldn’t the Lord know that? So how come he told Joseph Smith the opposite? Either the Lord was wrong, or was he not telling the truth? Or Joseph Smith made up the revelation and was wrong, in which case, why didn’t the Lord put him straight? It’s not too hard to know the answer to that one. Some Mormon apologists suggest that Joseph Smith was a little gullible at times. Maybe so, but when he comes up with a revelation from God, he’s a prophet. They can’t have it both ways. Then we have the Kinderhook Plates – blatant forgeries which Joseph Smith pronounced authentic and promised to translate; statements about bones he found belonging to Nephite warriors (eg Zelph), which all goes to prove that he had a vivid imagination but no gifts of revelation, or translation, which brings us to the so-called ‘Book of Abraham.’ 7. The Book of Abraham I’d always accepted the story of Joseph’s translation of the Book of Abraham from papyri that came into his possession during the Kirtland period. I had no idea that it had in fact proved to be false as far back as 1967.How can a church still continue to publish and print a document that has now no credibility, and keep it from the members. And this brings me to the conclusion of my story. 8. The Current Church Leadership Perhaps the hardest pill for me to swallow through this whole process was that I’d always revered the prophets of the church from David O’McKay to Gordon B Hinckley. I read all the glowing stories about them. I trusted them. Can you imagine how I felt when I discovered the real truth of Mormonism, and it began to dawn on me that these men had deliberately kept many things hidden? They had changed, sanitised, and sugar-coated church history, not only to make it fit, but to enhance the feel-good, and keep members in the church. I read about the Hofmann murders that took place in the mid 1980’s. Church leaders (prophets, seers and revelators!) were completely fooled by this man and his forgeries, which is bad enough. But when the proverbial hit the fan, and two innocent members of the church lost their lives, Gordon B Hinckley, Dallin H Oaks, Hugh Pinnock, did everything that was possible to reduce the fall-out for them and the church, so much so that by withholding information and deliberately hindering the investigation, a murderer of innocent people could have gone free rather than hurt the church’s reputation. Here they were dealing with this man to obtain documents that they didn’t want to see the light of day. That’s deceitful and bad enough in itself. Isn’t one of the questions to be allowed to enter the temple, “Are you honest in all your dealings?” It seems this doesn’t apply to the church authorities, as they like to call it, ‘Lying for the Lord.’ Gordon B Hinckley denied that he knew or that he had any dealings with Mark Hofmann (see detectives interview records) despite the fact that Hofmann had direct access to him and his office any time. Hinckley personally hired Steve Christiansen to seek out documents for the church, including the McLelland papers which Mark Hofmann supposedly had. When investigating police officers asked him if he knew the now murdered Steve Christiansen, he said that he’d never met him. Police detectives were pressured from the top to not pursue church leaders, and were denied access to evidence from FBI agents who also happened to be members of the church. Local church-owned newspapers and radio were discouraged from writing stories that could cause embarrassment to the church. Finally, when a magistrate decided that there was sufficient evidence to go to trial, and after prosecutors made it clear that Messrs Hinckley, Oaks and Pinnock would have to testify under oath about their involvement, a plea bargain was arranged due to pressure being put on the senior prosecutor (a church member). In return for a full confession, life imprisonment, not the death penalty (as is usual in UTAH) was accepted and the matter never wentto trial, so that these ‘good men of God’ would not have to testify under oath. I was disgusted. I asked myself, ‘Is this true? How can this be?’ I’d always idolised Gordon Hinckley. I checked other sources to make sure that what I had read was true. It was, no mistake. Men of God? Prophets, seers and revelators don’t lie and cover up. I now know that they do! I believe in honesty and truth. Yet members of the church say to me, ‘Oh don’t worry about all that. Just have faith. It’s still true. They’re not always inspired.’ I’ve become totally disillusioned that people still want to believe it’s all true. It’s like a badge of courage for some church members. ‘Oh, I know all that stuff. It doesn’t bother me, my testimony is still strong.’ Of course, further questioning shows that they don’t really ‘know all about that stuff’ and just mentally sweep it under the carpet, never to be looked at too closely. ‘My witness is enough for me,’ they say. Well, I must confess I was that way too. I now know from study that the so-called witness from the Holy Ghost comes to anyone who wants to believe in any set of belief or dogma. Members of Muslim, Buddhist and other Christian faiths all have their own ‘witness’ of the truth. Of course, members of the church say that it is not the same, and that these other religions are a counterfeit experience. How arrogant is that? How can onepossibly know how someone else feels? People of other faiths have exactly the same feelings about their beliefs. The fact is, it is a psychologically explainable human emotional feeling that is common to us all. We all go to our various spiritually-charged meetings and come out with the same feelings. Truth is truth. You don’t get truth from untruth. It’s like trying to mix oil and water. Something that can be so easily and comprehensively proved to be untrue, as is Mormonism, cannot be suddenly, miraculously true because ‘the spirit tells you.’ Although faith must be relied on in any religion, I believe that if God is a perfect being, he would not expect us to accept something on faith when all the evidence points to the contrary. According to Mormonism, God is a God of order, not confusion. Why would he expect us to believe when everything tells us, it can’t possibly be true? That would certainly not be a God of truth or order. So where has this journey finally led me? Well, I along with my wife Brenda have relinquished our membership in the church. I’m unable to remain in an organisation that continues to preach to the world about its ‘truthfulness’ when that is obviously untrue, and its leaders know it. Why would they seek to continue to cover up and hide things? Our youngest son and his wife have been put under a great deal of emotional pressure from her LDS family. Our other three sons and their families have all left the church. We try to maintain a good relationship with our youngest son and his wife, and allow them to make their own choices, not those forced upon them by others. We have lost most of our former church friends. It’s not their fault really. I can remember being on the other side of the street when some good friends of ours left the church over ten years ago. It’s sad that despite so much good, ultimately the church does far more harm and hurts so many families by its continuing refusal to accept its past, and the obsessive need to keep promoting the same sugar-coated story and life-style in the hope that members will stay. I know from my research that despite its boasts of increasing world-wide membership, and that one day it will fill the whole earth, the reality is that the church’s use of statistics is particularly dubious. Membership records are retained of many former LDS who no longer consider themselves members. Of the total membership of the church, less than one third could be considered in any way active, and if you compare the statistics provided at each annual general conference with those of previous years, the numbers don’t add up. We have found that large numbers of long-time members like us are leaving the church. With the continued expansion of the internet and other sources, the church cannot keep the lid on things as it has done in the past. I am sad, I’ve had many wonderful experiences in the church, and been involved with many fine people, but that’s not enough to make it true or make me want to stay. Sometimes I feel like shouting out from the roof tops, ‘Hey you guys. Wake up. It’s a fraud.’ At other times I just feel like quietly slipping away and getting on with my life, which is basically what I’ve done. If our friends feel safe and comfortable in their little church cocoon, then I have no intention of spoiling things for them. One of the good things is that we have renewed our friendships with those people who left the church several years ago, and that has been wonderful, in particular Kevin and Romy Thomson, who have shown us how to move on, and Simon and Jane Southerton. Simon was my counsellor and good friend when I served as a bishop, and who presented me with a signed copy of his book, “Losing a Lost Tribe”, which I treasure. He has been falsely accused of bringing us out of the church. The truth is, we already knew before we renewed our acquaintance, to set the record straight. To any out there who are currently going through their own journey, I hope that some of what I’ve said may help. It won’t be easy, but I know it will be worth it. Truth is all important. Thank you for taking the time to read. |
| | Wednesday, Apr 6, 2011, at 07:48 AM Born In The Church And Normal Development Original Author(s): blindmag EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| This video has given me the inspiration to type up this post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHwXlc... How many of us have been told we have to look after younger siblings or shut up and sit int he corner because the rest of the family is busy? How many of us got told to shut up because the bishop was around or some such thing? Oh and my favorite to go read a book when the books are all to hard to read. Large families and the extra influence of parents callings and primary activities plus the idea that the outside world is evil may keep BIC kids very isolated as young children. As they get a bit older, Early morning seminary keeping kids days early so they cant go out with friends and just be random and like kids, added pressure of young women/men, eagle scouts all this on top of school stuff, All the things your not supposed to think about or do or people your aloud to hang around with. Constant scripture reading. Added complications the whole way though are possibly looking after younger siblings, possibly having to deal with resentful older siblings that have to look after you. Possible homeschooling with strict schedule and structured play, Depending on the bishop interviews that ether are on the line or cross it of abusive. That's just some of the problems of growing up Mormon or possible problems. In primary we all were taught that church was to take over the whole weekend. Remember that song 'Saturdays the day to get ready for Sunday' It might not just be the brainwashing that BIC's and child converts are subject to but the fact there is no room for other types of thinking - like for real play where you can really use your imagination. This could be a major reason why many TBMs seem childlike in a way. |
| | Wednesday, Apr 6, 2011, at 07:51 AM Why Isn't Disbelief Sufficient Reason To Leave? Original Author(s): Stray Mutt EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| We talk over and over here about evidence the LDS church is bogus. It's how most of us justify abandoning Mormonism. But is all that justification necessary? If LDS belief is essentially grounded in feelings, and those feelings are reason enough for them, then why aren't our feelings of disbelief enough for us?
I think it's because we've fallen for the indoctrination. We get stuck in the false assumption Mormonism is the default reality and we have to prove it isn't, that we need really strong reasons not to agree. But we see time and again how even the most powerful evidence and logic can't budge someone who isn't prepared to accept the possibility the church isn't true. And since they're convinced it's true, there can be no valid reason, to them, for rejecting the church. So why do we try? Is it just so we don't look weak or lost in sin? They're going to think that anyway. Sure, some of us are logic-based people and facts are our touchstones. But religion isn't really about facts. It's about belief and faith. Mormons disbelieve all other religions. Why? Not because of facts, but because they believe something else. "Why did you leave the church, Brother Jones?" "Because I don't believe it." "But it's the One True Church." "I don't believe that." "But it was restored by the Prophet Joseph Smith." "I don't believe he was a prophet." "But... but..." "I don't believe any of it. Sorry." "Why?" "I just don't, the same way you don't believe Catholicism or Islam or any other religion." |
| | Thursday, Apr 7, 2011, at 08:00 AM The Problem With "The Holy Ghost" Original Author(s): Lord Of Darkness EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| According to the Bible Dictionary, the Holy Ghost (aka, the Spirit) "gives one a testimony of Jesus Christ and of his work and the work of his servants upon the earth." So how do we know when the Holy Ghost communicates with us?
Packer describes it as the following process, "That communication seldom comes audibly. Most of the time it comes through your feelings, as it did in this case." (Packer, "The Gift of of the Holy Ghost: What Every Member Should Know," June 24, 2003). Strangely, Packer suggests that it can be an audible VOICE, but then says it is usually through our feelings. As humans, we have five methods of perception: hearing, sight, touch, smell and taste. We use these senses to get through our day, communicate with others, avoid danger, and make decisions. Unfortunately, when it comes to our "feelings," we are no longer operating on these concrete methods of perception. And our "feelings" are a complex soup of mental/intellect, spiritual, and emotional stimuli. I don't know how you dissect one from the other. If God created a system to communicate with us, it would have been much better to go through the methods of perception, which are much less susceptible to confusion, self-dilution, and manipulation. Looking back upon my "spiritual experiences," I am convinced that I willed myself to have "feelings" in certain moments or was simply experiencing general emotion that I incorrectly attributed to "the Spirit." |
| | Friday, Apr 8, 2011, at 03:27 PM Threats Of Doom Are Everywhere Original Author(s): AtheistAnarchist EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| When I was in junior high school, and starting to see through the false veil of religion, there was one thing I had a hard time letting go of: praying.
It wasn't because I valued prayer. It wasn't because I enjoyed it. It was because I deeply believed that if I did not pray -- if I went to bed even one single night without saying a prayer first -- that "harm would befall" my family and loved ones. Night after night, I would try to climb into bed and not pray. I knew on one level that god was not listening, that he hadn't made any of my prayers come true -- hadn't gotten me that date to prom, hadn't swung me an A in chemistry, hadn't made my sister stop teasing me -- and that by that same token the liklihood of prayer having any affect on anything was small. But yet I was haunted, tortured, by the idea that my dutiful prayer-saying was the fragile last link keeping my family from dying in a horrific car crash or getting a fatal disease. If I did not pray, that would pull the Jenga peg that would "allow" all the nasty things the world had to throw to be thrown at the people I loved the most. Eventually, I realized that the reason I thought that didn't have anything to do with prayer or the (non)existence of god. It had to do with the way I was raised by my parents and by the small/tight/Mormon society in which I lived. Threats of harm were used constantly to beget compliance. If you do not obey the Lord's commandments, those you love will be hurt. If you do not do what your parents say, you will be punished. If you don't do what you're told at school, you'll ruin everything for the whole class. Other people will judge you. Other people will hate you. Other people will have to pick up your slack, and it'll be all your fault. Today while perusing the news, I came across an article about the budget stalemate. Obama was warning us all that: an impending government shutdown could derail the economic recovery and harm small business owners and families, and accused Republicans of injecting politics into a "debate about how we pay our bills." In other words, if obedience to the status quo isn't achieved, innocent people (families and small businesses) will be harmed. The federal government shut down for four days during Snowmageddon, and nobody even remembers that now. No "harm" befell beloved families. No more small businessmen died in car crashes or were diagnosed with fatal diseases than they would have otherwise. Just like with my junior high school prayers, the threats are empty. They're empty because they're all in our heads. Obedience isn't a virtue -- it's a trap. Teaching a child to "obey or else" is far inferior to teaching a child to trust you enough to come to you with questions as he/she figures things out on his or her own. Thinking, reasoning, using logic are the ways forward, not threats, guilt, obedience, social bullying, and commandments from abusive authority figures. These patterns that basically consist of Threat from a scary-looking bully => hysteria => obedience at all costs are so pervasive in society as to be nearly invisible. Society is so used to believing these threats of doom that the minute one passes, we forget it entirely and look to the next one -- even with 20/20 hindsight to show us that the threat was baseless. The world would not have ended if the crony capitalist TBTF banks would have had to file chapter 11 like every other broke businessperson. The country would not have exploded into a mushroom cloud if yet another country in the middle east wasn't violently attacked by US air strikes. And the world will not even recognize that the federal government has "shut down" this time, just like it didn't recognize it happening this past winter. I wonder how easily Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were able to use these threats of doom, destruction, harm, and violence to get their way from the cowering, fearful victims they preyed upon. Did JS and BY threaten to harm the families and loved ones of the women they pressured into becoming their wives? When are people going to say enough is enough, and stop standing up to the bullies of the world? My guess is that we won't be able to do so if we don't even recognize it as bullying. If we raise our children the way we were raised -- with fear, and threats, and violence -- then our children will come to accept that as the norm, accept that their "protectors" and their "masters" and their "authorities" in states and religions everywhere have their best interests at heart, and they should always obey. I hope the federal government shuts down. Perhaps if it does, it'll make it through the week without bombing someone. Now if only the Mormon church would shut down. Permanently. |
| | Monday, Apr 11, 2011, at 07:07 AM "Being Good Is Not Enough" Original Author(s): Stumbling EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| I took this phrase from the April conference talk of Paul Johnson (Seventy).
This one phrase sums up for me the Mormon Church's method of control. Make the members feel guilty that they're not doing enough. You hear it weekly during Sacrament Meeting, Sunday School and Priesthood. It has become a regular, once a week, guilt trip. You need to do more, you are not praying enough, read your scriptures more, do better at home teaching, go to the temple more, think better thoughts. Isn't it strangely ironic that this mantra mimics the social norms that Church leaders rally against. It's not about needing a bigger house, a bigger car, more designer training shoes, bigger boobs, thinner waists. What you have should be good enough, don't seek after bigger and better things. I don't see a Mormon Authority living in humble circumstances, driving around in a single humble vehicle, cleaning their own shoes, working for a living, wearing suits bought in a sale. Ahhhh, the blessings of tithing... Mormonism is all about making sure people believe that 'being good is not enough', at least for the minions... |
| | Thursday, Apr 21, 2011, at 09:14 AM Gaslighting Original Author(s): tara EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Your experience in Mormonism wasn't that bad according to many TBMs. Welcome to gaslighting.
Gaslighting. “I didn’t do that. I didn’t say that. I don’t know what you’re talking about. It wasn’t that bad. You’re imagining things. Stop making things up.”.... Result: Her or his gaslighting behavior may cause you to doubt your own sanity. It’s crazymaking behavior that leaves you feeling confused, bewildered, and helpless. Here are the signs: 1. You are constantly second-guessing yourself 2. You ask yourself, "Am I too sensitive?" a dozen times a day. 3. You often feel confused and even crazy at work. 4. You're always apologizing to your mother, father, boyfriend,, boss. 5. You can't understand why, with so many apparently good things in your life, you aren't happier. 6. You frequently make excuses for your partner's behavior to friends and family. 7. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses. 8. You know something is terribly wrong, but you can never quite express what it is, even to yourself. 9. You start lying to avoid the put downs and reality twists. 10. You have trouble making simple decisions. 11. You have the sense that you used to be a very different person - more confident, more fun-loving, more relaxed. 12. You feel hopeless and joyless. 13. You feel as though you can't do anything right. 14. You wonder if you are a "good enough" girlfriend/ wife/employee/ friend; daughter. 15. You find yourself withholding information from friends and family so you don't have to explain or make excuses. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/power-in-relationships/200905/are-you-being-gaslighted |
| | Monday, May 9, 2011, at 07:38 AM LDS Church = Emotional Purgatory Original Author(s): rmw EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| While I was still TBM, one of the things that began to bother me about the church was that almost all of their teachings were conflicting with what modern psychology deems healthy. I was dutifully bearing children while my husband was in grad school to become a psychologist. I periodically read his textbooks so we'd have something to talk about. Plus we had lengthy discussions about it. I'm no expert, but I'm hardly what you would call ill-informed.
I joined the church when I was 17. I was amazed to find that when I left TSCC (12 1/2 years later with a mission a temple marriage and 2 kids under my belt) I felt like I picked up right where I left off. Like I was in emotional purgatory. It was impossible to identify and work out emotional glitches inside the context of the church where such things are NOT ALLOWED, because everyone knows they're caused by sin. If you're doing everything right, you're happy. That's the promise. Since I've left I've had a chance to admit my weaknesses, accept my feelings, accept my past, learned how to empower myself, and basically heal in so many ways. If I'm not being clear here would be some examples: 1) The grieving process: Doesn't exist in the Mo church. In fact my husband told me that one of their EQ lessons on death got so out of hand that people were saying that if you really had faith you wouldn't even be sad when those you love died. 2) The stance on homosexuals: you're a sinner, change it or ignore it. (No healing or emotional growth can take place there) 3) The general attitude towards depression: It's a sign of your sinfulness...righteous people are happy people (thanks Boyd) 4) That you can pray away serious emotional problems 5) That you are supposed to suppress unpleasant thoughts or feelings and just work work work. 6) That you are to fiercely control your thoughts (controlling your actions I agree is important) but thoughts come and go as they please, and the more you make a concerted effort to get rid of them the more they consume you. 7) This one really messed me up 3Nephi 11:29 "For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another." I was sure that if I ever felt anger it was the devil's presence in me and I would not have it. If I ever felt even a twinge of anger no matter how justified I just squashed it...it turned to (you guessed it) depression. Not to mention the fact that I was a completely unempowered doormat. Well, the list goes on and on. I feel like the Church was emotional purgatory for me until a was brave enough to deal with my life and my problems head on. Since I've left the church I have accomplished some real healing and live in a very emotionally healthy way. |
| | Monday, May 9, 2011, at 07:56 AM The Gospel Of Fear Original Author(s): becca EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| The gospel of fear...
That's what that church preaches... Fear. Fear of not being good enough. Fear of not making it to the CK. Fear of not being allowed in the temple, fear of not being accepted into the group. When I left the church at age 28 I went rebellious. I wanted to know what life outside the church was like. One of my best friends told me: "Listen to your heart... Follow your dreams.." But I didn't even know what my dreams were... I didn't even know who I was. So I decided to find out. The first time I went into a bar I was almost paralised with fear! I had been taught all my life that such a place was of the devil. that evil things happened in there. I was always told the story of a pretty girl in a white dress going into the coal shed and even though she didn't 'do' anything, she still came out dirty.... the: God is watching you... fear of sin, fear of the ultimate sin of turning against the holy ghost... I was terrified!! Just walking into a bar. I expected a bolt of lightning to come down and strike me dead... I expected to see people with horns on their heads trying to claw at me with fiery breaths... But I HAD to find out. I HAD to see for myself... What I found was a wonderful, lovely Irish musician, who played the most wonderful happy music. We ended up chatting for a bit and found we had things in common.. we have been friends now for 13 years... he is a wonderful fellow... I found people who were just having a good time. Enjoying a drink and a chat with others. I found the delights of nonmo music, I found men who thought I was pretty and attractive and I found the odd idiot who needed to be set straight... Over the course of time I went back, again and again. On some nights I'd find idiots whom I didn't want to talk to, and on other nights I'd find lovely people to chat with, dance with, get drunk with and take home for a one-night stand.. But I will never forget that fear I had the first time I went into a bar. Why am I writing this? To give others hope. If you are just leaving that church, no matter what you do,and no matter how lost and hurt and sad and alone you feel, please remember: There is LIFE outside of mormonism. Wonderful, glorious, happy, fun LIFE! Don't let the fear that was instilled in you stop you from figuring out who you are and what you want out of life. Go out and experience. Then you can eventually choose the lifestyle that suits you. And you will too, as I did, find that there is life after mormonism. |
| | Monday, May 16, 2011, at 08:03 AM Some Of My Thoughts On What Recovery Means To Me Original Author(s): SusieQ#1 EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Some of my thoughts on what Recovery means to me or the Exit Process from Mormonism, as I define it - con't from Leaving Your Tribe.
This is a Recovery board, and as such, I have given a lot of thought to what that means in my life. Recovery, is defined for my own situation as The Exit Process from Mormonism. My experience and observation is that it's a highly personalized, individualized process. No two people or families are the same. It requires dealing with a large number of variables, and family dynamics. It's a Do It Yourself Project with no manual and no rules. We can read about other people's experiences, and learn from them, but ultimately, we do what will work for us. We all make our own decisions about how to do it, which seems to be a trial and error process much of the time. What one person experiences or works for them, may not work for someone else. This is how I do it. It works for me, but may not work for others. There is no right or wrong way to deal with the process. It's not black and white. What is right for one won't work for another person as their situations are often quite different. We think differently as human beings. Our backgrounds are very different also: BIC and convert most often, in my observation, will naturally approach the Exit Process differently. When members leave the LDS Church, (as in stop believing) it varies from a very young age to a much older age, sometimes in our senior years, like I did. Part of that process is a variety of stages that are a direct result of changing our mind about our religious, familial, cultural belief system. Those stages may be similar to others or very different. A few things helped me immensely. First of all, I needed to recognize that we are human beings, more alike than different: we put our pants on one leg at a time, we experience the same emotions that all humans experience. Religion is only one defining part of our human experience. For some, it's more globally encompassing than others. Mormonism tends to be more globally encompassing because of it's strong generational traditions and rituals. That is particularly evident for BIC and generational members. Not so much, depending on the person, for adult converts as they have a couple decades of life that they bring with them. This sums it up quite nicely: "The individual has always had to struggle to resist the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." --Nietzsche It's comforting to know we are not alone. When we leave our "tribe" and become an outsider, it's a process that may be similar to others, or very different, no matter what group or religion is involved. The more strict and controlling and authoritative the religion, as in Mormonism, the harder it is, in my experience. Some can leave very easily. They can walk away with little change. For others, it's extremely difficult and has far reaching dynamic results. Along the way I have concluded there are a few basics that worked for me: we all get the same thing: we live, we die, we do stuff in between. There are no wouldas, shouldas, couldas, or what if's. What is -- is. We play the cards we are dealt. We make the best decisions we know how with the information we have at the time. It's OK to change our mind when we find/receive new, better information. Don't let the past mess up my present. There are no fantasy parents, fantasy siblings, fantasy marriages, etc. Making major decisions that are far reaching, will, in the main, be difficult. My mind tends to see the Big Picture. After reading The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell (a textbook for a local college religion course), it became easier to see Mormonism in the Big Picture as one of many God Myths through out the history of humanity that humans naturally gravitate to through their generational, familial, cultural, societal background. The geography of our birth plays a large role in our beliefs. Where we are born in the world very often determines our religious traditions and rituals for our entire life. I found that it takes work, on our part, to give ourselves permission to be authentic and create a personalized, evolving new World View and be confident about it. It's natural, to have doubts and concerns along the way. It's an evolutionary process, in my experience and observation. Years after leaving the LDS Church, I am adding and subtracting notions from my new World View. I realized I needed to take my power back and own it, early on. I needed to be in the drivers seat and trust myself! This was my life, and I was going to live true to myself. Everyone is different: for some anger, resentment, distaste, disgust, etc. can last for years. For others, those kinds of emotions are quickly replaced by others that lead to making peace with all of it. Humor is very healing! I fall in the latter group. The end result of this very personalized, Do It Yourself, Exit Process from Mormonism based on the dynamics of our individual lives and families, is that former members will very often develop very different World Views and different opinions. Ideas and opinions that were considered incorrect and abhorrent in the past, often become acceptable. It's natural for human beings to see the world only through their eyes. Changing from a concrete religious World View with little to no deviation, as in Mormonism, to one that is open and evolving can be jarring and upsetting when confronted with different opinions. Learning the skills of a skeptic, using logic and reason in a new way can be difficult. It can all feel wrong at first. Eventually, we each find our niche, usually through experimentation. We find what works for us as a former Mormon. I am a young adult convert, so my interpretation and experiences will be different than a generational BIC member, for instance. The dynamics of the home, and whether it's a: Spirit of the Law, or Letter of the Law (more fundamentalist in nature) makes a big difference in how we each internalized Mormonism also. My experience is predominately with a Spirit of the Law dynamic. It's an exhilarating experience! Scary at times! Taking off the Mormon filter from our eyes and ears takes some getting used to. We often completely change our hair styles, and our wardrobe, discarding the regulation garments. The world looks much different. There are new ways of looking at everything. All of our thoughts and actions take on a new perspective. For me, it was necessary to use humor (daily), write satire and parody, write about the process regularly, and not take it all too seriously. It was also necessary for my sense of well being to know I was OK, to keep my self confidence, self respect, self esteem cooking on high! I was going to change my mind and do it my way! And I could do that. I didn't need to be fixed by anyone or anything. I was not defective. I'd figure it out. I could do that. I also needed to learn how to set boundaries and how to protect myself. That is on-going. This is my list of how I know I'm out -- or recovered as some say, or the Exit Process is about as done as it's going to get.:-) Like many, I live with and love Mormons and always will. They are some of my relatives and dear friends. It's important, for me, in my situation to maintain as many positive relationships as possible. (Not always continually possible, however.) This is my check list. I read it from time to time to see how I'm doing. If you make a list, yours will naturally be different. I know I'm really out when........ I've made peace with it. The emotional attachment has been replaced with love of all of life. (Recent post on The Power of Emotional Bonds/Attachments to Beliefs by Faith covers this subject.) The following is how I made peace with it. The short version. I know I'm really out when..... ...There are no more resentments, anger, regrets, or self recrimination, explosive responses, name calling, etc. ...I can live with and love Mormons and accept them like anyone else ...I can be kind to members, and maintain a rational relationship and friendship like everyone else. ...I understand that Mormonism is a religion like thousands of others and it's OK to change my mind, leave it, and know I am OK and was OK all along. ...I can respect all people's rights to choose their own religion (or none) as a valid choice and honor that right. ...I love my family and friends unconditionally, regardless of their religious choices. ...I own your own power, set healthy boundaries when necessary, and take charge of my own life, living it today, not for some reward after death. ...I choose my friends regardless of their religious choices. ...I can go to a church building, read their scriptures, articles, etc, attend functions associate with Mormons like anyone else. I didn't start out with this list. It evolved naturally during my process. I have added to it from time to time as I check off those automatic thinking scripts from Mormonism. (Another list in another post - I'm a list maker!-) I will always live with and love Mormons, especially my dear husband of 48 years, and some of my family that are members. This is now I maintain a healthy relationship with my family and friends. Every person teaches me something, and most often, enriches my life. The result of this kind of thinking has given me the greatest freedom, joy and peace of mind. |
| | Friday, May 27, 2011, at 08:32 AM A Cool Little Mormon Trick Original Author(s): runtu EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWA_jr...
Yesterday I was listening to some of the songs from Parker and Stone's "The Book of Mormon (The Musical)." Yes, much of it is crude, and they have taken some liberties with Mormon beliefs and practices (OK, that's a bit of an understatement), but it is funny and creative, and the songs are well-done and catchy. But one song hit me hard, and I wondered how Stone and Parker could have understood so clearly my experience growing up in the LDS church. I shouldn't have to say this, but it's obvious to me that my experience isn't the same as anyone else's; I am speaking only of my experience. But the song suggests to me that I may not be alone. Many of the songs in the show make joking references to the perception that Mormons are perpetually "nice" and polite, but it's this song that explains why this may be so. Part of the socialization process in every human being involves suppressing our desires in favor of the greater good. We count it civilized, for example, to obey the laws of traffic, even if we need to be somewhere in a hurry. Those who do not keep their desires in check in accordance with the law may find themselves paying a fine or serving a prison term. And many of us take this self-suppression even further. Because we need to fit in, we keep our desires, our dreams, hidden. I've always loved this quote from Marge Simpson, which explains beautifully this need to suppress the self: "It doesn't matter how you feel inside, you know. It's what shows up on the outside that counts. Take all your bad feelings and push them down, all the way down past your knees, until you're almost walking on them. And then you'll fit in, and you'll be invited to parties, and boys will like you. And happiness will follow." Of course, going along to fit in never results in happiness, and you probably won't be invited to parties, either. What Marge is talking about is external actions that express our feelings. "It's what shows up on the outside that counts." As a Latter-day Saint, I was really good at keeping up surface appearances, and I think a lot Mormons are. In every leadership position I held in the LDS Church, I learned that, while on the surface, most church members seemed to be doing just fine, there were serious problems in a lot of homes and families. There really wasn't anywhere in the church to frankly discuss our problems, except to the bishop, but we had been told that bishops were not there to counsel us or help us with our problems. In public, we had every incentive to proclaim that what was on the surface was reality. We told everyone in testimony meeting and other places how happy we were. But, for me at least, the reality under the surface was quite different. For one thing, I was dealing with chronic depression, and ironically, my attempts to be happy on the surface kept me from acknowledging the depression or dealing with it. And part of the reason for that was my desire to make my feelings and desires accord with the surface appearance of "doing fine." Thomas Monson famously said that, if we were struggling with our desires, we should "fake it till you make it"; in other words, if we act as if our desires are "good," eventually our thoughts will catch up with our actions. Looking back, I can see that there was tremendous pressure to bend (or break) my desires in favor of doing and thinking what the church teaches. Jesus taught that lusting after someone was the same as adultery, and in keeping with this, LDS scripture tells us, “See that ye bridle all your passions, that ye may be filled with love” (Alma 38:12) and on the other side, "Let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly" (D&C 121:45). In other words, I was supposed to drive out bad thoughts and think only good thoughts. So, controlling your thoughts becomes paramount for a Latter-day Saint. Boyd K. Packer taught: "Probably the greatest challenge and the most difficult thing you will face in mortal life is to learn to control your thoughts. ... The mind is like a stage. During every waking moment the curtain is up. ... Have you noticed that shady little thoughts may creep in from the wings and attract your attention in the middle of almost any performance on that stage and without any real intent on your part? These delinquent thoughts will try to upstage everybody. If you permit them to go on, all thoughts of any virtue will leave the stage. You will be left, because you consented to it, to the influence of unrighteous thoughts. If you yield to them, they will enact for you on the stage of your mind anything to the limits of your toleration. They may enact themes of bitterness, jealousy, or hatred. They may be vulgar, immoral, even depraved. When they have the stage, if you let them, they will devise the most clever persuasions to hold your attention. They can make it interesting all right, even convince you that theyare innocent, for they are but thoughts. What do you do at a time like that, when the stage of your mind is commandeered by the imps of unclean thinking, whether they be the gray ones that seem almost clean, or the filthy ones which leave no room for doubt? If you can fill your mind with clean and constructive thoughts, then there will be no room for these persistent imps, and they will leave." So, it's not enough to behave righteously, but it is important to think and feel righteously, too; otherwise, your mind will yield to evil such that "all thoughts of any virtue will leave." The ability to think and feel only righteous thoughts is variously spoken of as "self-control," "self-mastery," and "purity of thought." Parker and Stone describe pretty well the way I did it: When you start to get confused because of thoughts in your head Don't feel those feelings hold them in instead Turn it off, like a light switch Just go click It's a cool little Mormon trick We do it all the time When you're feeling certain feelings That just don't seem right Treat those pesky feelings like a reading light And turn 'em off like a light switch But I was never entirely sure that the feelings were really gone and would not resurface at some point. Was I the only Mormon who was afraid of alcohol and drugs not because they were dangerous but because I might "lose control"? No, I had to switch it all off, as the song describes: Well, Elder McKinley, I think it's okay that you're having gay thoughts Just so long as you never act upon them No – cause then you're just keeping it down Like a dimmer switch On low (on low) Thinking nobody needs to know (uh oh) But that's not true Being gay is bad but lying is worse So just realize you have a curable curse And turn it off I don't think my struggles were anything compared to that of gay Mormons, but the principle is the same. As long as you still feel and desire something contrary to the gospel, you are guilty. Church leaders have often used this passage from "Huckleberry Finn" to illustrate the point: "It made me shiver. And I about made up my mind to pray, and see if I couldn’t try to quit being the kind of boy I was and be better. So I kneeled down. But the words wouldn’t come. Why wouldn’t they? It warn’t no use to try and hide it from Him. … I knowed very well why they wouldn’t come. It was because my heart warn’t right; it was because I warn’t square; it was because I was playing double. I was letting on to give up sin, but away inside of me I was holding on to the biggest one of all. I was trying to make my mouth say I would do the right thing and the clean thing … ; but deep down in me I knowed it was a lie, and He knowed it. You can’t pray a lie—I found that out." Of course, Huck's lament is mean to be taken as ironic, as it is his conscience that won't allow him to do the "right thing and the clean thing" by turning in the slave, Jim. But we were meant to understand that, if our heart isn't right, we have to find the "determination to choose the right when a choice is placed before us" (Thomas Monson, Ensign, Sept. 1993). The only solution is to choose only positive, uplifting thoughts and switch off every bad thought or feeling: anger, lust, greed, laziness, whatever it is. Self-mastery, then, is a constant effort to think and feel and do the right, no matter what, and it isn't just avoiding pornography. In the "Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood" manual, we read, "Developing self-mastery will help us form positive habits such as arising early, studying the scriptures daily, and fulfilling our assignments promptly. Such habits can free us from confusion." Other positive habits listed include paying tithing and keeping the Word of Wisdom. The manual urges us to set goals "to live [gospel] principles" and "do our best to reach those goals." Strangely, the analogous lesson in the manual "The Latter-day Saint Woman" gives an example of how to achieve such goals. The manual describes an American woman who feels tremendous guilt for eating "nearly a whole box of chocolates" at Christmas time. She continues: "Eating the chocolates represented my low point. I cannot describe what I went through to one who has never experienced similar feelings: I was stuffed with chocolates, disgusted with myself, despondent, and thoroughly discouraged. Through this ridiculous, silly weakness, Satan worked with me and brought me down. All my feelings and thoughts at this time were unworthy. “So that Christmas I decided that I would never experience that situation again. I sat down and wrote myself a letter. In the letter I described my feelings so I couldn’t forget them, and I promised myself that I would not let another year pass without gaining total control over my appetite. I’ve seen such progress in myself in the year since then, and my confidence has grown daily. I know that I have almost won this particular battle” (“My Worst Enemy—Me!” Ensign, Feb. 1975, 62)." Most people would just shrug this off as a typical holiday overindulgence and not repeat it (well, at least until the next Christmas). But this woman feels disgusted, despondent, and discouraged; this is truly her "low point." One box chocolates, and Satan has brought her down until all her thoughts were "unworthy." I could relate to this overreaction. Towards the end of my mission, I saw a movie poster in the main plaza, which showed a woman in thigh-high stockings and heels. I quickly averted my eyes, but I knew I had felt something unclean when I saw it. I spent a ridiculous amount of effort chastising myself for that fleeting thought, which otherwise would have been nothing more than a moment in time. But I couldn't allow that image to gain a foothold in my mind, as I had recently read in a church magazine that, once an image was in your mind, it "may never be erased." Obviously, I'm not advocating that we abandon all self-restraint in our lives, but I don't think I was the only Mormon who obsessed over small things because I desperately wanted the stage of my mind to be free and clear of any shady thoughts that might commandeer it and lead me to misery and sin. It seems to me that obsessing over these things made me miserable, perhaps as much so as if I had let the persistent imps take over. |
| | Thursday, Jun 2, 2011, at 08:37 AM Bitter Is An Emotion, Not A Pidgeonhole Original Author(s): anagrammy EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Our emotions are like kalaidoscopes. One turn and the same tiles that were mostly blue in a round design appear red and angular. The key to happiness is to observe them and realize that they are all part of being alive, equally worthy of expression.
The longer you are out of the church and your new life begins to pay its dividends, the more perspective you will have on the Mormon experience. I've been out since 1982 and could not see anything but the devastation it caused me since I raised my children in a cult. I felt terrible guilt and even thought they ruined my life. Especially after my son died a senseless death on Block 51 in Salt Lake City, I blamed myself joining the Mormon church in the first place. To make it worse, my son once said to me, "Everything was fine until I was ten." Which was the year I joined the church. Had I not had eight other children, I would have felt I did not deserve to live. That was my "bottom" as they say. It was bitterness and anger that gave me the energy to go on, to be honest. The Mormon church had taken so much from me, sucked me dry and threw me away, and I would be damned if they would take away my children's mother and leave them with Mr. Walnut Heart, the Mormon to raise them. I drove more safely because I knew that I was the only parent that really loved them, despite my mistakes. I promised myself I would throw my considerable energies to 1) getting back the unique self I was meant to be and finding peace and joy 2) healing those I had injured as best I could 3) getting my children out of Mormonism and 4) helping any one else I ever encountered to find themselves and leave the mind-control that is Mormonism. This is a lifetime journey that starts with self-compassion and self-acceptance. This is the water your starved Being needs to bloom. It is not too late to become your best You and amazingly, people respond to that far more than the You the Mormons created - their sales person. There's nothing wrong with being angry about what was taken from you. They had no right. That being said, what's more interesting to me is how as time went by, I began to see how the Mormon experience has gifted me in strange ways: * Nobody loves Sunday like I do. I have a worship going on where I deliberately go out to the corner Peet's, get the Sunday paper and settle in to enjoy my morning coffee. I take a long leisurely walk back just feeling how wonderful it is to own my life and my time. * Having been forced to individuate again after leaving Mormonism, I went back to college in my forties. That was an amazing experience and I enjoyed every single moment from the standpoint of a freshly opened mind. No ideas threaten me--I can hear everything and find it interesting. No territory to defend means the world is yours to accept as a human being amid other human beings. No longer are you forced to pose as a person with "more light" who has to try to change every person who sits beside you on an airplane. * I can remain silent now. I tend to be talkative anyway, but now I can just listen to people instead of waiting for my turn to talk so I can invite them to a ward activity. I never realized that I viewed others as prospects, or prey. I can be there for people who are suffering or who are aging or who have new babies and I am just me, not someone bringing a message from Christ. Or worse yet, me always with an agenda. * My relationships are better now (the ones I didn't lose completely) simply because of the arrogance that's gone. Yes, you are arrogant as a Mormon and then arrogant as an anti-Mormon. Hope this doesn't offend those of you needing to express bitterness or anger, but longterm this is just the truth: there is not much difference between: YOU KNOW THE GOSPEL'S TRUE, I KNOW YOU DO, YOU BORE YOUR TESTIMONY! and YOU KNOW THE CHURCH IS NOT TRUE, YOU SAW THE (DNA/BOM/POGP you name it), I KNOW YOU KNOW ITS CRAP, YOU ARE INTELLIGENT! When you heal, and you will, you will say instead, "I know it seems true to you now and I respect that. The facts I've shared are available online any time you feel ready for more information than the church gives you. Peace." *I now am a terrific saver finding it really easy to move that 10% into my own savings account, saying inside my head, "Not for you, Monster--I mean Monson." *I know all the words to Saturday's Warrior and will karaoke anywhere anytime. Ridicule is a great healer and that's one of the reasons RfM is so successful. *I would have never met any of my wonderful exmo friends. It's like going to the VFW and hanging out with vets. You see those old guys asking each other what platoon they were in and what theater of action--IT'S LIKE THAT AT EXMO CONFERENCE. "Oh, I was in the Pleasant Grove Stake, Second Ward..." We find many who can throw their arms over our shoulders and say in unison, lifting beercans "We will go down...." It does get better, hang in there |
| | Monday, Jun 6, 2011, at 07:21 AM The Mormon Business Model Original Author(s): anagrammy EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Your treasure hunting days are over 'cause you been busted and are on probation... you turn to sage business advice, the key to success and wealth beyond measure (with no seed money):
Find a need and fill it... begat Create a need and fill it begat Find a fear and soothe it... the selling of not dying begat Create a fear and soothe it... the promise of eternal families Before I ever saw a missionary, it never occurred to me that I could "lose" people in the afterlife. I assumed that heaven would not be heaven without my loved ones, so it was obvious that they would be there. I don't know why I let those young men make me afraid and then capitalize on my love for my children by selling me a plastic card. |
| | Monday, Jun 13, 2011, at 08:39 AM Psychology Today Magazine Article: "Necessary Endings" Original Author(s): The 1st FreeAtLast EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
I came across an article, "The Art of Endings", today by psychologist and bestselling author, Dr. Henry Cloud. The following are excerpts from the article:
"In both the personal and professional life, there are times when reality dictates that a person must stand up and 'end' something. Either it's time has passed, it's season is over, or worse, continuing it would be destructive in some way."http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/t... I left cultic Mormonism in 1992, a VERY needful personal ending, considering that the LDS Church had, from early childhood to adulthood, systematically abused not only my naïveté and trust, but also my mind and emotional 'soul' with its myriad of fear-, guilt- and shame-inducing 'true' doctrines and teachings (i.e., religious nonsense). Tragically, it's done the same with millions of people since 1830. Thankfully, in the past 17 years of the Internet 100's of 1,000's people have ended their membership in the patriarchal/abusive Mormon Church and gone on to create healthy and happy lives. Perhaps more difficult, many individuals have been married to a TBM or had parents, siblings or friends who refused to look at the mountain of facts that prove that Mormonism is a fraud. Pulling away from or ending relationships with psychologically dysfunctional and emotionally immature people (who refuse to grow up) is another important part of life that we should not avoid. Dr. Cloud's article is worth reading, IMO. |
| | Monday, Jun 20, 2011, at 08:04 AM Former TBM Stuggling To Learn Whether His Current Position In Life Was A Product Of Rational Choices Or Strongly Influenced By Brainwashing Original Author(s): Anonymous EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| I was a TBM. Got the Eagle. Served the mission. Did the Temple Marriage soon after. Had the children quickly. I was one of those 100%, do eveyrthing types. I made all my life decisions based on what I was taught was ideal by the church. Numbered for later reference: here are some things I was taught or learned:
1) I should avoid steady dating until after my mission. In this way, I could avoid temptation. 2) It would be difficult to find a mate if I didn't serve a mission. 3) Once I returned from my mission, I should avoid hanging out, but engage in courtship. If it didn't look like a relationship would lead to courtship, I should pull the plug sooner rather than later. 4) I should not date those that were not Mormons. 5) Kissing should be very limited. 6) I should never be in a bedroom of the opposite sex 7) I should never lie down next to a person of the opposite sex 8) Discussion of sex should be reserved until marriage if possible. If needed, things of a sexual nature might be discussed, but only by engaged couples immediately preceding the marriage. 9) Women that wore sleeveless shirts were immodest. 10) Two piece swimsuits were immodest. Girls who wear them are harlots and flaunt their flesh. 11) I should not delay marriage. 12) Two people that are committed to the gospel could have a happy marriage, no matter what. 13) If I waited too long to get married, I would not be blessed. It was my priesthood duty to find a righteous wife and get married. 14) Just find a righteous women and marry her. The details can be worked out later. 15) Once married, do not delay having children. That is self-ish. There is no reason to wait until college is done and you have a secure job to have children. In response to these teachings, here is what I did (numbers correspond to the above): 1) I broke up with my first girlfriend in high school after our first makeout session because I thought we were getting too serious. Broke her heart and missed out on a lot of fun and experience in the romance sector. 2) I spent $10,000 and two years of my life in a foreign country because I worried if I didn't I would forever be a second-class citizen in Utah. 3) Upon returning from my mission, I immediately broke things off with a girl who was a long-time friend and who had written me, making her cry, because it did not appear that she was ready for marriage, and only marriage material could be dated. 4) Did not affect me much because I didn't know any non-Mormons. But did make me think that anyone dating a non-Mormon was bad and second-class. 5) My future wife wouldn't make out with me other than a few pecks. Should have recognized this as a warning sign, but during courtship thought this was just her being more faithful to the less is better before marriage teaching. Wife still not a fan of kissing. 6) Felt incredibly guilty or awkward in the vicinity of a bedroom. When I did enter my fiancee's bedroom in her parents home with her parents home, alarm bells constantly went off in my head so that all I could think about was how I shouldn't be in her bedroom. Still get uncomfortable when I am in the homes of others and they give me a tour of the house. Upon stepping foot in the bedroom, the alarm bells still go off. Alarm bells go off when I stop to pick up my kids at the home of a female babysitter. Alarm bells go off when the babysitter asks for a ride home. 7) Snuggled once before marriage on a couch with my fiancee in a semi-horizontal position. No sexual touching of any sort. A year after marriage, wife breaks down in front of bishop and confesses our grievous sin. 8) Learning on our honeymoon that my wife doesn't know anything about sex. Was never taught at home. Wife having a complete repulsion to sex due to guilt. Years later, wife still not being fully comfortable with my body. Finds basic sexual functions disgusting. Sadness and lack of fulfillment. Thought fireworks would start upon marriage. Told by fiancee just to wait and things would become really fun. Wrong. 9) Women wearing sleeveless shirts are modest and beautiful. Women wearing long sleeves or even short sleeves during humid, hundred degree temperatures look gross. 10) Two piece swimsuits look normal and fun. Find myself wishing my wife would wear one and kind of resenting the fact that my wife wont'. (Prepared for the backlash for this comment--but its true..guys like two pieces). 11) Got married after dating for less than a year. Did not sufficiently discuss parenting styles, sexual needs, etc. 12) Found that adherence to the gospel is a completely different world from female hormones, male sexual drive. 13) I married the most righteous girl I could find. Turned out not to be the funnest. Turned out to be old-fashioned. Turned out to be close-minded. 14) I'm working out the details now, and it sucks. There are certain things you cannot work out later. 15) Had two children during graduate school. Never got much sleep. Wife always needed help. Wanted me to be perfect supporting father and perfect student. Grades suffered. School debt. Lucky to secure a good job. Economy tanked. Lost job. Found lesser paying job. Two kids, stay at home mom. Fortunate to have a job. But sexually frustrated, think completely different than my spouse. Reality has hit. Things aren't as easy as they make them appear. Wouldn't things have been different had I made my own decisions rather than following the teachings I was fed as a TBM. Probaly. |
| | Friday, Jun 24, 2011, at 08:02 AM To Resign Or Not To Resign Original Author(s): raptorjesus EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| To resign or not to resign That is the question Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer The cookies and letters of outrageous lovebombers Or to take arms against a sea of well wishers and gossipers, And by opposing end them? To "die" be "members" no more; And by death to say we end the community Of a thousand unnatural friendships that the church is heir to; Its consummation devoutly to be served. To die, to rest To rest, perchance to be free - ay there's the rub For in that resignation what members may come, Even if we have shuffled off this oppressive cult must give us pause. There's acknowledgement of the corporation's power For we have borne the whips and scorns of authority, The oppressor's wrong, the pangs of disprized love, The insolence of priesthood office And the spurns of judgment that we the "unworthy" took Would resignation validate this? Would it keep us from the remainder of "god's elect" who grunt and sweat under a weary life, To delude themselves about the undiscovered country From whose bourne no traveler returned, To comfort their wills and make them bear their membership ills they have Than fly off to others they know not of? But conscious can make cowards of us all. Resignation is a native hue of resolution A finality over a pale cast of doubts And enterprises of great pith and moment. With this regard doubting currents turn awry, And take the name of action. To resign or not to resign nevertheless, Within the church be all my sins remembered |
| | Monday, Jun 27, 2011, at 07:17 AM How Is Your Life Better, Since You Left The LDS Church? -- Here Are Some Of Mine Original Author(s): SusieQ#1 EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| What is better?
It's my life, I'm in charge. Owning my own power. And being very careful about who I give my power to. I choose what I eat, drink, wear, read, study, research, and how I spend/use my time and money, etc. Living in a state of freedom and peace of mind. A total disconnect from the code to the emotional attachment/bond to the religious beliefs that used to govern my life. Creating my own World View. No fear of recriminations from ecclesiastical leaders, LDS family, or LDS friends. No concern for living a certain way for a reward in an after life. Learning to live with the power of an Attitude of Gratitude. Having made peace with all of my life. I am very grateful that I have lived long enough to make the changes I have made in my life, and to continue to enjoy the freedoms I have, each day. At my age, well past the middle mark, when I wake up and hurt someplace, I know I am alive! That reminds me to be grateful..... for another day! An understanding that everything in life is temporary. No concern about what others think of me. I'm OK to be me. |
| | Thursday, Jun 30, 2011, at 07:46 AM Why You Leave Is No One Else's Business Original Author(s): runtu EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| A friend of mine realized that he did not believe in the LDS church about the same time I did (summer 2005 or so), so we connected over similar experiences. He was serving in a bishopric, and I was in the high priests group leadership. Both of us ended up serving in our callings for a while because we couldn't get released. So, being dutiful church members, we kept on serving in our callings, even though we did not believe. He served in the bishopric for over a year as an unbeliever, finally calling it quits when he realized that they had no intention of releasing him. As for me, they just put me in the nursery.
One way that we are different is that I had an intense need for people I cared about to understand where I was coming from, so when people asked me why I had lost my faith, I told them. My friend, on the other hand, just says, "I don't believe in the church anymore, and I have good reasons. If you want to know about it, you'll have to do your own homework." On the one hand, this has been much better for him than it has been for me, as there's been less arguing, fewer attempts to drag him back to church, than there has been for me. Every time I ever brought up a church issue with friends or family, it ended badly. So, in that respect, he's chosen the better path. Of course, he's been told that one consequence of his silence has been rampant rumor-mongering, such as that he was involved in "swinging" or polygamy, or that he started his own cult. He thinks that's funny, as do I, but I admit I'd probably be a little perturbed if that kind of stuff were said about me. But in the end, he's right. What he believes or doesn't believe is his business and no one else's. I can't speak for the rest of you, but I was raised to be keenly aware of what other people thought of me and how well I was living the gospel. Sometimes Zee's posts remind me of that terrible angst from feeling like other people disapprove of things I've done, but for the most part, the angst is gone. I know why I don't believe in Mormonism, but it's no one else's business but mine. |
| | Tuesday, Jul 19, 2011, at 08:46 AM The Bipolar Affect Of Mormonism Original Author(s): chesslord1979 EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| I see being a TBM as a mindset that's been programmed into you. It's ironic that many of the things my p-hood leaders taught me to be on guard for were the very mind tricks they were playing on me (without knowing it probably).
For example, have you ever been told how to boil a frog? My LDS mentors instructed me on the matter, emphasizing that you can't just throw a frog into boiling water. You have to put the frog into lukewarm water and then gradually increase the temperature. My leaders taught me this to keep me away from anything that slightly resembled anything that contradicted Mormonism. Very clever and effective method. The irony of the lesson is that this is precisely what Mormonism did to me as a convert. Gradually boiled me into submission. The six discussions we had back then focused on basic principles that would appeal to most people ("milk before meat"). An individual accepts the "outer core" of Mormonism and the process of gradually and ever so slowly increasing the temperature until the individual is paralyzed has begun. Finding ones self in this predicament it feels to late to escape. The cords that seemed light and thin now have a binding hold. The temperature that was comfortable to the frog is now boiling hot. Any movement seems to increase the temperature. The healing process for one who has been so severely burned is excruciating and unfathomable. It seems easier to give into the delusion of comfort rather than fight for your life. It would take something inside of you that lies dormant within the recesses of your mind & soul to break free from the cords that bind you and jump from the boiling pot toward a path of recovery. At this point the Bipolar affect takes hold. You find your mind split in two. Arriving at the frightening conclusion that you must escape, and then relenting back into the boiling pot over and over again. Until somewhere in this life sucking process you finally decide, IT IS FINISHED! You mentally break free from the Bipolar affect and leave Mormonism for good. Did you experience this aweful back and forth? If so what was the decisive element in your life to break free from the horror? |
| | Monday, Oct 3, 2011, at 07:21 AM LDS, Inc. Needs "Self-Reliant" Members To Feed On Original Author(s): axeldc EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| LDS, Inc. needs members to be self-reliant
A) So they can give lots of money to the church B) So they don't expect much in exchange. They have to be careful that self-reliant members don't become self-aware. Once you realize the church is more dependent on you than you are on them, you start refusing their demands and then it gets ugly until you finally leave them in the dust. What did I get from the church: -Faked history -Pie crust friendships -Repetitively dull meetings -a social life conditional on my conformity What did they expect from me: -Half my weekend plus some evenings -10% of my gross earnings, which is about 15% my take home pay or 90% of my post-expense earnings -Conformity to their standards, including lying to myself about my sexuality Once I figured out the deal, I decided that I could live without them a lot easier than they could leave without me. |
| | Wednesday, Oct 26, 2011, at 07:28 AM Individual Worth Original Author(s): runtu EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| The "Mission Story" thread got me thinking.
One of the church's Young Women Values is "Individual Worth." I used to think it was a real positive that Mormonism taught us that we were children of God and had the potential to become like Him. That "spark of divinity" within us made us inherently worth something. But the more I've thought about this, our worth as church members was always conditioned on our ability to contribute to the growth and prosperity of the church. "The worth of souls is great." This means that a soul that contributes to the church has worth. If not, we're worthless. "The family is the basic unit of the church." This means that the church sees our families as existing for the church's benefit, and not the other way around. Families that do not contribute have no worth. I think this is why it's so easy for a lot of church members to completely write us out of their lives when we leave or stop contributing. We are literally worthless. The good thing, of course, is that we do not need the church's approval to be worth something. Each human being has inherent worth and dignity, with or without the approval of Mormons. |
| | Thursday, Nov 3, 2011, at 07:40 AM To Man In Black Who Was Deemed Unworthy To Bless His Son Original Author(s): anagrammy EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| To Man in Black who was deemed unworthy to bless his son.
Of course I am biased because you are my adopted grandson; HOWEVER, what do you think would happen if you just stood up and came up to the front and stood in the circle, basically rejecting the Bishops evil-eye judgment? Can you imagine what a stir that would cause? Would they ask you nicely to leave the circle, under their breath, and would you turn to the audience and say, "No one has more right to bless this child than his own father, because Families are Forever." And two suits come forward and ask you to come peacefully with them. And you reply, evenly and audiby, "If I am judged to be unworthy of fatherhood, I demand to face my accuser." You will get to bless the baby or just tell them you are taking the baby home for his blessing. This may be just a fantasy for family reasons, but it's a good one, doncha think? |
| | Friday, Nov 18, 2011, at 08:11 AM Mormonism And Manipulation Original Author(s): eddie EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
From KickBully.com: http://www.kickbully.com/master.html
Healthy human interactions are not dominated by manipulation. instead, you find genuine concern for others and a sense of cooperation. Even when people have their own self-interest in mind, the principle of fair exchange is followed.After decades of dealing with the manipulation within Mormonism it has been very challenging learning how to set boundaries and keep manipulators at bay. One of the first steps was realizing that ALL forms of manipulation are unhealthy and reflect a profound lack of respect for others. Manipulation in all of its forms is inherently arrogant and condescending. To manipulate another person you must feel that you are superior and that the other person is somehow less capable. Given the lack of respect, undermining, incessant questioning of worth, nonexistent boundaries, and pervasive manipulation it is a miracle that antidepressant use among Mormons is not even more pervasive. The feeling of true, lasting success is virtually impossible in Mormonism. |
| | Wednesday, Nov 23, 2011, at 11:42 AM Giving Without Prejudice: A Mormon Story For Thanksgiving Original Author(s): Runtu EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| I've told this story before, but it's a reminder to me of the importance of giving and sharing without being judgmental. I'm not telling this to bash the church, and my family has forgiven the people involved. And, because I know some people will tell me this is an exaggeration or we don't know the whole story, this story has been confirmed to me by my mother (who was appalled that my dad had told me about it) and two different family friends who were there.
My father told me this story about 3 or 4 years ago. I had never heard any of this, and it still hurts to think about it. When my mother became pregnant with me, my father was a Ph.D. student at USC. He worked for an aerospace company one day a week, and they paid most of his tuition. My parents had three children before I was born, and my dad's income barely paid the bills. They lived in a one-bedroom apartment that had been converted from a detached garage behind someone's house. Needless to say, they did not have health insurance. About 5 months into the pregnancy, my mom started bleeding, and not just a little spotting. The doctor told her that she was going to miscarry, and she should just have a D&C and get it over with. But, since she insisted she was going to do everything possible to have the baby, he told her she would need bed rest until I was born. My parents sent my brother and two sisters to my grandparents in Utah for four months so my mom could stay in bed. When I was born, the doctors discovered a life-threatening birth defect, and I had major surgery that day. I spent the next six weeks in the hospital before coming home on Christmas Eve. My uncle gave my dad everything in his savings account, but it wasn't half as much as the bills. The Crippled Children's Fund loaned my dad the rest of the money. My dad was forced to quit school and go to work full-time. Until I was almost 6 years old, I had to go to the hospital overnight once or twice a week to have my esophagus dilated. By then I had two younger brothers. My family was very poor, heavily in debt, and under a lot of stress. From the time that my mom started the bed rest until I was done having my bi-weekly procedures, no one from the church provided child care, meals, rides to the hospital, nothing. We didn't get anything from the bishop's storehouse, and no money to help with the bills. Literally, the local ward did nothing to help my family. Just after I turned six, we moved from that ward. A few days before we moved, the former Relief Society president showed up at our house. She begged my mother's forgiveness for not helping when we obviously needed help. She said that, in a ward council meeting, the bishop had said no one was to help the Williams family because "Brother Williams is not a full-tithe payer." I can't tell you how much it hurt to hear this story. I gave so much of my life to the church, and this felt like a real betrayal. It still hurts. But it reminds me that we must help people in need, even if we think they don't "deserve" it, even if it inconveniences us, and even if it's hard. I do not want anyone to think of me as someone who saw their need and didn't help. |
| | Tuesday, Dec 6, 2011, at 11:17 AM A Broken Window In The Recreation Hall Original Author(s): Muscogean EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| There were several families of Democrats. A middle aged man claimed to be a Communist. The bishop was a mortician, who sometimes had the ward youth come to his family business for interviews (groan). There were Jewish converts and an elderly man who spoke only German. He came ever Sunday and sat on a bench, not understanding a word. There was a wonderful old sister in the choir who often sang, "I come to the garden alone." Her husband was a polygamist, who you never saw in church. The bishop would eventually give her a temple recommend to get her endowments (based of her faithfulness). There was the family who owned the local grocery store and hired ward youth. There were Nephi's, Alma's and one loud memorable Brigham. There was an "untouchable" route in ward teaching, twenty some families who never let you past the front screen, and often slammed the door on you (but you still went back).
The building had been dedicated by a prophet, a polygamist. It was California Mission style, with blue and white tile. There were huge beams across the tall ceiling and beautiful dark wood across the stage and in the pulpit and choir seats. A stained glass window above showed Jesus ascending toward Heaven. Six heavy wooden doors opened to the street to catch the ocean breezes. The church sat right on the corner, three steps up from the street. The next church down the street was a tiny "Church of the Firstborn and Kingdom of God." Folks wondered if it had a Mormon connection. MIA consisted of M-Men and Gleaners and Mormon dances were never to be missed (also road shows, dance festivals and ward dinners). The year was 1958 and I was baptized (a college guy) into Jesus and the church (in those days it was a church, not a corporation). The church financial stats were still given at conference time. Many weddings were held in the chapel, as only perhaps half the youth opted for temple marriage. Numerous sailors came for services and hopefully an invitation to dinner (we were a Naval shipyard town). Baptisms were in a recessed area next to the kitchen, funerals were always crowded. There was only a tiny parking lot, everyone just parked on the streets nearby. That was the Latter-day Saints world over fifty years ago. I almost cried when I heard the old building caught fire during Sacrament meeting and burnt to the ground a few years ago. It was never rebuilt. Perhaps because that church no longer exists, only in memories. Who stole the quirky old Mormon church? I suspect someone in Salt Lake... An empire builder. |
| | Friday, Dec 16, 2011, at 01:28 PM The Offended Or The Offender? Original Author(s): londonuk EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Re: "YOU CHOOSE TO BE OFFENDED" - "I think far too many use it as a scapegoat for their offensive behavior, never taking responsibility for their own errors..."
I sent this to a bishop recently who wants me to 'return' to the church (despite the fact that it was the church who excommunicated me from their membership and religion and that I have attended many times since with my wife and family). I decided to see if they had anything against me and if this statement was in fact open arms waiting to welcome me into 'fellowship'. It wasn't - so I turned the situation around in adapting the words of 'authorities'. Adapted from a talk by Roderick J. Linton: In refusing to accept an individual, the church, in effect, attempts to deny the blessings of the atonement to that person. Despite a Bishop or Stake President's expectation of receiving forgiveness for their own sins they turn and say on behalf of the church: "But not you! We're not going to forgive you, you don't deserve it." This seeks to nullify the effects of the atonement on that individual. By doing so the greater condemnation is on that individual and organisation (D&C 64:9-10). Adapted from a talk by David A. Bednar: Let me make sure I understand what has happened to me. Because the church was offended, I have not been blessed by the ordinance of the sacrament. I have been withdrawn from the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. Because the church was offended, I have been cut off from priesthood ordinances and the holy temple. My opportunity to serve others and to learn and grow has been discontinued. The church has created barriers that will impede the spiritual progress of myself, my family and children, my children’s children, and the generations that will follow. Maybe the church or those in authority have never thought about it that way. I have extended the invitation to the church, that the time to stop being offended is now; an invitation that has been refused. Even though I have been told "we need you" and "you need the blessings of the restored gospel", those words are empty in the proclamation "We don't want you-- not now.” |
| | Tuesday, Feb 7, 2012, at 12:08 PM It's Always Wrong To Touch Someone When They've Said "No Touching." Original Author(s): Cheryl EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 -Guid- | ↑ |
| It's always wrong to touch someone when they've said "no touching."
This is a continuation of the thread about the church leader forcing someone to endure unwanted shoulder caresses at a church meeting. Someone in that thread lambasted the guy for objecting to the intrusion and causing a small commotion. I want to lend support to anyone who stands up to mormons who invade private space and refuse to abide by normal boundaries. In the nonmo world people don't usually aggressively insist on manhandling or caressing casual aquaintances. In the mormon world leaders sometimes overstep by using force. That's always inappropriate. Other inappropriate boundary violations: Going to homes where the residents have requested NO contact. Our homes are our castles. We have a 100% absolute right to determine who is welcome and who is not. Asking about underwear is inappropriate especially if someone has said they're not willing to discuss it. Telling people they must to believe or participate in a certain religion is inappropriate. Even talking about religion can be wrong unless those in the conversation agree to cross this line. Leaving anonymous treats on a doorstep as a comeon to attend a church is not normal behavior and is an invasion of personal space. Mormons don't often see anything wrong with these things because they're programmed to blame victims for having boundaries. So often on this board and among mormons I see people ridiculed for not submitting to boundary violations. Mormons and unrecovered exmos stick up for those who pull these stunts because they don't want to face the fact that they are part of the problem. Their mindset is stuck in a place of respecting church authority over self determination. If something doesn't bother *them,* they attribute weakness of character to anyone with different personal boundaries. I'll be frank. Individuals don't owe mormons leeway on this issue. It isn't taking the highroad to put up with garmie checks, shoulder messaging, home invasions, or unannounced mormon spies if those things are bothersome or repulsive. We all own our bodies. We own our time. We own our home space. We own our inner thoughts and feelings. Anyone is dead wrong to claim we must undergo therapy and feel guilt over having boundaries. What other boundary issues are minimized in the mormon culture? Does anyone have examples to share? Has anyone blown up over a boundary violation and felt guilty about it? Did anyone used to be part of the problem? |