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EX-MORMONISM SECTION 3
Total Articles:
50
A very large selection of posts made by those in recovery from Mormonism. Culled from throughout the Ex-Mormon Communities.
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It seems more and more that TBMs have given up on the law of free agency.
One example is the ultra-Mormon city of Cedar Hills that tried last year to force the closure of all stores on Sunday.
Another example is TBM Larry H. Miller pulling the movie "Brokeback Mountain" from his theater, in an attempt to "protect young people" from seeing it. I suspect if Mormons had their way in Utah, the movie would be banned completely from the state.
The real issue isn't whether the movie is worth seeing or not. The deep issue here is free-agency.
Should adults in a Mormon society be allowed the choice of whether or not to see a movie, or should the choice not even be permited?
Back in the 60s and 70s when there were porn theaters in downtown Salt Lake City, church leaders pointed to them as examples of the principle of free agency and "oposition in all things." Back then, church leaders taught:
"Concerning the principle of free agency, President David O. McKay has written, “Next to the bestowal of life itself, the right to direct that life is God’s greatest gift to man. Freedom of choice is more to be treasured than any possession earth can give. It is inherent in the spirit of man. It is a divine gift to every normal being. Everyone has this most precious of all life’s endowments — the gift of free agency — man’s inherited and inalienable right.” (Improvement Era, Feb. 1962, p. 86.)"
"[Satan destroys] our freedom of choice, and he does this by enticing us to give up our right of free agency to other persons or to other institutions and allow them to make our choices for us, resulting in the evil that presidents of the Church have repeatedly warned against in communism and socialism and other orders of this type."
"Thus in one way or another Satan tries to entice us to become like him and to become subject to the misery and unhappiness that he now experiences. To achieve his devilish aims, Lucifer can and does work through many means: business combines, governments on all levels, military forces, educational institutions, secret combinations of all kinds, and even families, teachers, and churches. Wherever and whenever you find a person or an institution that seeks to destroy the free agency of man, there you will find the influence of Lucifer."
"President Henry D. Moyle talked on this subject in these words: “All we have to do is … examine any movement that may be brought into our midst … and if it … attempts to deprive us in the slightest respect of our free agency, we should avoid it as we would avoid immorality or anything else that is vicious. … Free agency is as necessary for our eternal salvation as is our virtue. And … as we guard our virtue with our lives, so should we guard our free agency.” (Conference Report, Oct. 1947, p. 46.)
“This truth has been challenged again and again, and will yet be challenged again and again. It was challenged in the heavens before time began, by the brilliant but rebellious Lucifer. There was war in heaven—for freedom. And anyone who seeks to enslave men in any sense, in mind, in spirit, in thought—anyone who seeks to enslave the minds, the hearts, the spirits of men is essentially in league with Satan himself—for “where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty” [2 Cor. 3:17].
“Thank God for the right of choice, for the right to become whatever we can become in a free and provident land that, despite its imperfections, has proved to be more efficient for progress and human happiness than any society founded on the false philosophies that would seek to enslave the minds and souls of men."
“God grant that we may repent wherever we have departed from the principles of freedom—that we may preserve the right to fail and the incentive to succeed, and live, as did the Founding Fathers, knowing that there are no acceptable substitutes for freedom.” (From the Crossroads, New York: Harper & Brothers, 1955, p. 45.)"
- Elder Daniel H. Ludlow, “Moral Free Agency,” New Era, Nov. 1976, page 44
Contrast that message with the one being taught today by the church:
Elder Richard G. Scott of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles:
“Your agency, the right to make choices, is not given so that you can get what you want. This divine gift is provided so that you will choose what your Father in Heaven wants for you. That way He can lead you to become all that He intends you to be. That path leads to glorious joy and happiness.”
- Conference Report, Apr. 1996, 33; or Ensign, May 1996, 25
Elder Packer:
“We are free to obey or to ignore the spirit and the letter of the law. But the agency granted to man is a moral agency. "- Conference Report, Oct. 1990, 108; or Ensign, Nov. 1990, 84
Today's Mormons - especially some in positions of power - appear to reject the principle of free agency. They want people's choices taken away, in order to "protect" them from sin.
Wasn't that Satan's plan?
| Who remembers this quote?
"...the submission of one's will is really the only uniquely personal thing we have to place on God's altar. ... " (Ensign, Nov. 1995, at page 22)
One of my former stake presidency liked to quote Maxwell. That presidency emphasized that Saints should attend every meeting and never turn down a calling. Obedience was the overarching principle above all else. I disagree because the leadership does not know everything about the members' lives and I firmly believe that individual members are the best judges of what they can and should do with regard to church work.
Once in PEC, a former bishop asked why people turn down callings. I said in part, "it has to do with differences in personality." Not everyone is cut out to run a nursery, teach a lesson, lead a choir, or preside over a quorum. In my opinion, Mormon leaders often fill positions out of desperation and call it inspiration as a way to leverage acceptance of a calling.
Another way the church presses obedience is through peer pressure. How many times do they pass around a list in RS or priesthood meeting asking for volunteers from giving blood to working at the bishop's storehouse? If volunteers are lacking, the leader informs the group that phone calls will be made during the week.
I have to admit it - I hated seeing certain names pop up on caller ID. In the worst case scenario, I did my share of outbound calling. Along the way, if some quorum, group, or ward contributed less to stake assignments, the bishop and so on down the line was sure to get their butts chewed by the stake presidency.
What a way to run a church!
| I'm not sure why this hit me today, but I thought I'd get it out and be done with it.
My mother's apostasy hit some time before mine. She tried and tried to get us (me and my dh) to listen to her reasonings. She tried to relay very much the type of stuff we read here...remember this is all many years prior to the emergence of the internet...her info came from the Tanners books (I wonder how they found them all the way in Australia?).
We had just recently relocated back to my home town and we were living with my parents while finding jobs and homes etc. Stubbornly, every time she would bring up the issue of mormonism, we puffed up in self righteousness, haughtily got up and would walk out of the room. Like arrogant piss-ants, we would get ready and go to church every Sunday, making sure they saw how wonderful and obedient we were. *puke*
My mother was never one to keep her findings to herself. Her outspokenness regarding church history, got some old biddy's panties in an uncomfortable wad, and the biddy ran to the bishop. He ran to the Stake President who assigned the 2nd Counselor to call me and my dh in for an interview...For the purposes of ensuring our salvation *rolleyes*.
During the interview, the 2nd counselor told us that our eternal future depended on us severing all relationships with my family especially since they were going to ex my mom and several other family members. I don't remember being shocked at the ex'ing part. I think my mom was hoping this would happen sooner than later to save her the effort of name removal...which is a longer more cumbersome process given this was Australia over 20 years ago, and there was not the knowledge on how to proceed anyway. I was more shocked that they dare try to dictate that I should move out of the house and sever my family ties with my loving and obviously very generous mother!!!
That moment, the wheels of cog diss started spinning wildly. I did not know how to respond. I must have been visibly flushed because the 2nd Counselor told us that maybe we should take some time to absorb the ramifications and come back and talk with him again in an hour or so. I was shaking, I was numb, I was confused...I was so angry!!!
During that hour, during priesthood meeting and RS meeting an announcement was made that certain members of my family were ex'd. Furthermore, the members were being asked to avoid contact with the apostates for the safety of their eternal salvation.
I don't know all that went on in the priesthood meeting (my dh was also shocked and angry that this was announced in such a manner, and wouldn't talk too much about it). They opened up the RS meeting for questions and clarifications. One woman wanted pictures of the entire family so she knew who to avoid and with which kids her kids should not be associating.
I remember starting to cry. I remember women putting their arms around my shoulders misunderstanding my emotions. I wasn't crying about the ex'ing. I wasn't crying because of my moms eternal future being in any sort of jeopardy. I was crying tears of frustration, tears of anger. They were being so petty, so small, so fearful of other sweet young children!!!!
OMG...it all hit like a ton of bricks...the lies, the manipulation. My humiliation stemmed from the fact that I had, just and that very moment, "woken up" and didn't have the courage to speak out. I let them think I was broken and sad for doctrinal reasons. I should have been screaming out the indignations of their corrupt process of misinformation hiding doctrines and corrupt church history from the members. I should have let them know.....instead, I just never went back.
| | | Did Joseph Smith Really Think This Through; How Ridiculous The Doctrine Of "Temple Work For The Dead" Really Is
Article Archived: Jan 9, 2006, at 08:19 AM
Stored Under Topic: EX-MORMONISM SECTION 3
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: Just Give Me The Truth |  | |
According to Mormon doctrine, in order to become exalted in God’s celestial kingdom, each person who lives past the age of accountability (8 years old) must have done certain ordinances and ceremonies.
These include, baptism by immersion, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, washing and anointing in the temple, temple marriage sealing, and the temple endowment ceremony including the “new name” and all the signs and tokens etc. God, in his great wisdom, according to Mormon doctrine, requires that all of these ordinances and ceremonies be performed here upon the mortal earth.
Now the question comes up, what about those billions of people who have lived here upon the earth and never had an opportunity to receive the true gospel and have all these ordinances and ceremonies completed in the flesh while they lived on earth before they died. That is where the doctrine of “temple work for the dead” comes into play in the Mormon religion.
In a nutshell this is what that doctrine means: All we have to do is come up with all the names of every person who has ever lived to the age of accountability on this earth and not have had a chance for having these ordinances done while they lived upon the earth, and then simply have one of the good and faithful temple worthy members of the Mormon church who are living in the flesh upon the earth just do these ordinances and ceremonies in proxy for and behalf of each of the named persons who are now dead. (That is a mouthful) Then, should this dead person decide to accept the gospel in the “spirit world” he can then accept each of these ordinances or ceremonies and be as if he had done them himself while living upon the earth. Thus, he too, could then have opportunity to make it to exaltation in the celestial kingdom.
Simple enough plan, right? Not so fast. Let us really think this through and see what it really entails. The population of the earth today is about 6 billion people. The number of Mormons is, by the church’s account, about 12 million, which is the highest it has ever been. Of those 12 million only about a third, or 4 million are active. Of that active 4 million, let us say only a third have temple recommends and of that group only half at most really go to the temple very often. We are now down to about 650,000 active temple worthy Mormons who go to the temple let us say twice a month or so. Therefore, right now, the ratio of active temple going Mormons to the rest of the world population that is not Mormon is 1 active temple goer for every 9230 other people in the world. Also, think about the fact that this is the highest that ratio has ever been as the Church membership is at its height right now.
For the Mormon church to achieve its goal of having “temple work for the dead” completed for every person who has ever lived or will live to the age of accountability upon the face of the earth this means then some active temple attending Mormon, that has ever lived or will live, must complete these temple ordinances or endowment ceremonies in the temple in proxy for each of these dead. Let us assume that each active temple attending member of the Mormon church, who ever lived or ever will live, will be responsible for 10,000 dead. (If you would estimate actual numbers, this number would in actuality be very much higher) So each of these members would have to perform 10,000 baptisms, 10,000 confirmations, 10,000 washing and anointings, 10,000 temple endowment ceremonies, and many thousand marriage sealings.
So let’s think about this. Say our average active temple going Mormon was able to attend the temple twice monthly for 55 years of their adult life. On each episode of temple attendance, they were able to get in 1 endowment session and a few of the other four ordinances that the dead need done for them. Then, by the end of there life, they would have done 1320 endowment ceremonies and a few thousand at the very most of each of the other four ordinances for the dead. Therefore, they would be say 80% to 90% short of their responsible number and now these would have to be added to the list for others to do later. (during the Millennium I suppose).
By the time the Millennium comes, the number of people who have died and needing their temple work done, will thus be in the billions and billions. So all the faithful members of the Church who have been saved to live in the Millennium will now be responsible for a mind numbing amount of truly boring work to be accomplished in the temple for the thousand years.
It is all possible? I guess that it could be argued that it might be. But is it a truly rational thing to have to do and accomplish. Keep in mind that from teachings given to us by the Church, only a small percentage of all those dead having all this work done for them will, in the end, even accept the gospel and having this work done for them while they are in the Mormon spirit world. What a massive waste of time and energy! Would in not be much more logical for God to simply allow all those who accept the gospel in the “spirit world” to just do these ordinances and ceremonies there, in the spirit world, and have that count for them. I ,personally, can not believe in a God with such a ridiculous plan for accomplishing ordinance work that he decided needed to be done by each person he would grant entrance back into his kingdom. Does this plan even make sense?
| First there was polygamy. Prophets and Apostles stood up and invoked the name of God that this was a "Law of God" that could not be done away with. It was preached as being inherently superior to the "corrupt system" of monogamy. Plural marriage (or "Celestial marriage" or "Patriarchal marriage" as they called it) was a commandment of God and was here to stay.
The world backed by the U.S. Government had different ideas.
Graudally the Church came around to the world's way of thinking. By the 1940s and 1950s the LDS church was actively turning over information on polygamists to law enforcement authorities.
Then there was the idea of "legal marriage" It was the policy if not "doctrine" of the church that couples who lived together without benefit of a legal marriage (as defined in their country) were living in sin. This, however, caused a problem in some catholic countries where divorce wasn't legal. A man and woman would get married and the marriage would break up. However since divorce was not allowed they were still legally married for the rest of their lives. The man or woman would go on with their lives moving in with a new partner but not able to marry them--they would just cohabit.
The Church, with then-Apostle Spencer W. Kimball's urging, changed the rules to allow those who were legally adulterers to be baptized into the church without having to discontinue their adultry.
Then the whole problem of homosexuality appeared suddenly in the last part of the 1900s. Just about the worst insult you could call a guy was "Queer". Being gay automatically got you drummed out of the army with a dishonorable discharge and no protests from anyone. The church hardly acknowledged that homosexuality even existed.
The gay rights movement, however, made the issue visible. The Church's solution was to encourage a gay member to quickly get married to a memeber of the opposite sex (interestingly the bishop who usually counselled a young man to do this never suggested his own daughter as a possible mate). This, of course, led to many disastrous results. The world was saying that Gays can't really be changed. The church, as you have quoted, told the world that it was wrong.
Now the church is beginning to accept the idea that Gays are gay for life. They no longer encourage Gay men to marry women to "fix" the problem. There is even no more rhetoric about how it can't possibly be genetically influenced.
Now they say "we have the same rules for everyone, gays and straights: no sex outside of marriage." This almost sounds egalitarian--same exact rules for both.
Of course they then spend millions of dollars and many, many man hours trying to defeat bills to legalize gay marriages wherever they are introduced so their talk of "same rules" is rather disengenuous.
But at least now they are warming to the idea (presented by "the world") that there is a biological/genetic component to sexuality. Oaks a few years back even publically considered the idea as acceptable.
In the sexually repressed 1940s and 1950s (when many of the current church leaders went through their formative years) the idea of oral sex was taboo. Many states had laws against consenting adults engaging in it. It was called a "crime against nature" and often referred to as something "too horrible to mention" (indicentally people were convicted and sentenced to jail in trials which did not allow their actual "crime" to be mentioned since it was "too horrible to mention"--in one state a man who raped his wife was convicted only of engaging in oral sex upon her because at the time oral sex was illegal while spousal rape was legal!).
Well then came the 60's and the sexual revolution. Mainstream movies ("Coming Home" and "Bonnie and Clyde") contained strong references to oral sex. The book "The Joy of Sex" describing "proper" oral sex techniques became a best seller. In 1982 the First Presidency sent a letter to bishops and stake presidents stating that "The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice."
Well this caused a bit of a consternation. Some people felt that the First Presidency was out of place telling married, consenting adults what they could or could not do in their own homes. Anyway there was a bit of a backlash when word got out as to what the "old men" had actually written. A follow up letter was sent out saying, in effect, for pete's sake don't actually bring up any details of a married couple's sex life in a recomend interview.
The Church backed off and the matter was given benign neglect. The Supreme court ruled that what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms is nobody's business. Now some TBMs even pooh-pooh the claim that such a letter was ever written and call it anti-Mormon lies. No Mormons complained because the Clinton-Lewinsky affair involved oral sex, but only that it involved infidelity.
So when it comes to morality, sexual or otherwise (racial for example) the world leads and the Church follows.
| Yesterday I attended the baptism of my eight year-old niece. She is the daughter of my ultra-TBM brother. She was the only one baptized.
What struck me the most about her baptism, was the repeated references to her having to be baptized to wash away her sins.
When I was growing up in the church, when you turned eight years-old, you didn't have any sins yet. Children under the age of eight got baptized to become members of the church and to get the "gift of the holy ghost."
But for my niece, the message was more about having to clean herself. In addition to the talks that said this, we also sang a children's primary song on baptism, which reflects this same idea. The lyrics read:
"I know when I am baptized, my sins are washed away, and I can be forgiven and improve myself each day."
"I want my life to be as clean as earth right after rain."
Listen to the song here:
http://lds.org/cm/topicsearchalpha/1,...
How long has the church been teaching seven year-old children that they are dirty with sins that have to be washed away by baptism at age eight? Do you think the church changed this so more kids would be guilt-induced into baptism?
My nine year-old doesn't buy into the whole dirty/clean guilt trip induced by Mormonism. After the baptism she told me she felt sorry for her cousin.
| Shortly before it all fell apart church-wise for me a lesson was given in PH meeting regarding "finding those who are susceptible to the spirit".
The teacher gathered missionary tactics from those that served and found one common element. Preying upon the weak. He was absolutely delighted with this since the material he was reading from listed the downtrodden, depressed, and hard up as being more susceptible to "the spirit".
We were encouraged to seek these people out. The more miserable the better.
This stuck in my craw and was actually the first thing that [B]really[/B] got me thinking about the church (the second was the startling realization that the temple ceremony was a bastardized Masonic initiation my first time through the temple).
I got up and went for a walk. I felt like I had been had since a few years earlier I was one of those golden contacts the teacher told everyone to seek out. Someone in a funk. I was depressed. Extremely depressed. The missionaries and church-going friends fed me the typical lines and of course it was too good to be true.
Looking back I realize I wasn't looking for the spirit. I was looking for friendly faces and a leg up.
What predatory tactics can you recall being encouraged to use in the name of conversion?
| I sing in an LDS group, none of whom know that I am an unbeliever. Yesterday I listened to a very interesting conversion after our rehearsal was over. The director's daughter has been dating a young man. They love each other, they want to be together, and they want to get married. However, the young man received a personal revelation while he was in the temple that it is not right. They are still together and the young man is hoping that the answer may change. Both families think that they would be very good for each other and are disturbed by this development. The mother talked to her bishop. He told her to have the young man call him. He wants to talk some sense into this young man. He says that if this particular young woman wants to marry you, you do not need to pray about it. You just do it. I understand his sentiments as she is quite an exceptional young woman.
I found this very interesting. None of the adults involved really have any faith in personal revelation, especially when it is someone else's. Do Mormon's really believe in personal revelation? Some people might believe in their own, but do they really trust the principle enough to acknowledge the personal revelation of someone else? Mormon's are taught to seek for it, but do they trust the results? Perhaps people who are too fanatical about it end up getting burned sooner or later and discover that relying on their own judgement is much safer.
My DW has been on the other end of this situation. She felt very strongly that she had received a revelation telling her why she needed to go on a mission. When she was called, the stake president asked her why she wanted to go. She shared the reason that she was given by revelation. He told her that it was not a good reason. This was very upsetting to her, and she felt that he was not inspired in that instance. He did not acknowledge her revelation, and she did not acknowlege the inspiration he is entitled to receive on her behalf as her priesthood leader.
When I was a believer, I genuinely believed that I received personal revelation. However, when I got married, my personal revelation often contradicted DW's. Furthermore, she sometimes demanded that I pray for an answer to something. After I felt I had received an answer, I would share it with her. However, subsequent events proved that it was not the right answer. DW did not loose faith the principle, but she began to believe that I was not inspired. I began to believe that it was impossible to tell whether an impression was actually a revelation until it was verified by some other experience. I gradually realized that this makes the principle worthless, even if it does exist. I tend to believe that most TBM's with sufficient life experience do not really believe it, if they are honest with themselves. However, there is tremendous social pressure to appear to be righteous, and receiving revelation is seen as evidence of that.
What did you believe about personal revelation when you were a believer? What do your TBM family members believe? What do you believe now?
| That is what my dear husband said to me this morning. For those of you who are lurking on this board, take what you read as being very serious. I can tell you that since my husband and I have practiced Mormonism our lives have been like hell in a handbasket!
I was born into the church and when I met my future husband to be, I INSISTED that he take the lessons. Long story short, he got the weakened down version of the discussions, accepted after much persistence from the mishies and joined. Since, I was raised ourside of Utah, we were taught the milk before the meat for ALL the time I lived in the East. Not until I moved to Utah did I hear of second annointings, blood atonement, the Adam-God theory, mysteries of Kolob, God and Mary sex act, polygamy in heaven, Joseph Smith's harem of wives, etc. I could go on and on. We didn't have Seminary back in those days, either. We were too far away , I guess.
After having held several callings and beginning to understand and actually study the LDS scriptures, our eyes were opened. Sore trials came upon us. Was it a coincidence or just life? Several immediate family members fell to serious illnesses, some died. We were devastated. Financial disaster came upon us- Not once, but twice. It seemed like every time we rose up in the church, we were squashed. Being a martyr came naturally, as friends in the church told us that we were being put through the refiner's fire- because we were such good people. I often wondered, was God trying to tell me something?
When my son decided to not serve a mission, things changed.
(yes, he was worthy) We were treated poorly for his decision. I was treated poorly because I did not force him to go. After all, does he not have free agency? I sat back and listened to the insults and insinuations. We had been studying the scriptures in preparation for this event and suddenly things weren't adding up. Our little family decided that maybe we should take a break from church and see how our life goes and how we feel about everything.
Months passed and there was a peace came into my life. I was rested, refreshed and overall ALL of our lives were improving. We now had great business success, health and a desire to move on with our lives- without the church.
The next problem is one that many on this board have: How to get out of the grips of this SICK culture and afford to start over when you have devoted most of your adult life to something that you once thought was most precious and dear to you. When you think of the years of brainwashing -It is VERY scary. It could effect your emotional, financial, spiritual and mental well being. Please be careful as this religion has ALL the characteristics of a cult. I never thought I would be in one.
| From the sacrament-talk-dictionary-opener school of thought:
"Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?" asks the interviewer.
Affiliate: To attach (to) or unite (with); to receive into a society as a member, and initiate into its mysteries, plans, etc.; -- followed by to or with. [1913 Webster]
Sympathize: To agree; to be in accord; to harmonize. --Dryden. [1913 Webster]
Precept: Any commandment, instruction, or order intended as an authoritative rule of action; esp., a command respecting moral conduct; an injunction; a rule. [1913 Webster]
An anonymous T(B÷2)M, like myself, who posts here with the word "unregistered" next to their moniker is certainly not affiliated with RfM. The word was probably chosen because it sounds like "associate" and therefore encourage all members to completely avoid longterm contact with those with contrary points of view.
Sympathize is a tough one. Is that sympathize in a movement sense, like "are you or have you ever been a communist sympathizer?" I suppose it must be, or the phrase "lean" or "tend toward" would have been chosen. But, the question hinges on what exactly the precepts of RfM are.
The only precept like statement I could find with some ease is on the main page of the site where it says:
"Recovery from Mormonism-A site for those who are questioning their faith in the Mormon Church and for those who need support as they transition their lives to a normal life. We are not affiliated with any religion and we do not advocate any religion."
Is it a teaching of the church to not question the faith? It is not in any Article of Faith or Proclaimation. What about transitioning to a normal life? I suppose there is no teaching against it. It is always good to help in a good thing. No truly kind person would want anyone to be a former Mormon whose life is in shambles.
So, I should be able to answer "yes, yes, yes, yes, no, no, yes, yes, yes, yes, no, yes, no, yes" in clear conscience right?
| I don't make that statement egotistically. You see, I was a TBM deluxe. When I was a boy, I would have chosen being the president of the Church over being the president of the United States. I loved the church. I loved going to Primary. I loved being baptized. I loved it when my family was finally sealed in the temple. I couldn't wait to go on a mission (but did have a couple of doubts just before). I absolutely loved the MTC and loved being a missionary. I loved being an Aaronic Priesthood holder. I loved getting my patriarchal blessing. I loved getting the Melchizedek priesthood. I was asked to speak in Stake Conference just before my mission. I was excited about going to Argentina and converting the beautiful people there to the Gospel. I loved thinking about the beauty of the Plan of Salvation (Happiness). I loved teaching people about the Gospel. I loved the thought of one day marrying a wife for eternity. I loved it when my wife and I went to the temple and were married there. I cried at the altar as Irealized that the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were for me, too. I loved blessing my children. I loved working full-time, going to school for time, serving as an EQ president having a family. I loved callings and meeting people,. I loved interacting with my friends at church. I loved modeling the church. I loved finding ways to mention the church in discussions. I loved pondering about the scriptures. I loved speaking in sacrament meeting. I loved it when a temple was announced next to my ward building. I loved being on the Temple Open House Committee and working with the press. I loved being an ordinance worker. I loved the church.
I then I became worn out. The things I loved made me feel dead. I realized that my relationship with my wife was a facade. We were both married to the church. I took a good hard look and researched. And I found out about things again that I had shelfed. I puked, cried, prayed it wasn't so. I tried to brainwash myself back into belief. I talked to friends and family about my then doubts. I cried so more, and then I became very angry about the deception I had encountered and the way the church/cult was pulling my family and friends away from me.
This is coming from a 39 year old man who was raised in the Church, whose family life was completely centered around the church, who went to early morning seminary for 4 years, was active as Deacon, Teacher, Priest, spoke in Stake conference, went to the temple then to the MTC, served a faithful mission (not that it matters, but was an AP). This is from a man who returned and was married in the temple, went to BYU, had children, worked, served in the church; who went to law school, had more babies, was an EQ President, YM President, Ward Mission Leader, HP Group Assistant, Bishopric counselor, HP Group leader, bishopric counselor again (and would be the next bishop, but for).
I was at first a reluctant convert to this truth that has changed our lives. The fact that I am here, tells me that the flood waters are rising.
| I used to ride the bus with an engineer in the Temples and Special Projects department at the church office building. He told me a lot of great stories. From memory, here are a few.
He was sent to St. George to inspect damage to the temple after the Springdale earthquake. The roof there was designed by the man who did the tabernacle roof. He was a bridge designer, so the roof was done in a lattice-work structure, with wooden footings extending down into the corners of the temple. It was designed to hold the four walls together. Over time, the church had decided that the footings were wasting space, so they cut most of them out to use the space for storage or for furnaces. This meant that the roof wasn't really attached to the walls, and when the earthquake hit, walls shifted in some places up to 18 inches. He said that the building was in serious danger of collapse at that point.
When he got back to Salt Lake, he had to give a presentation to Hinckley and Monson. He told them they could either make minor repairs in a quick fix, gut the building and shore up the structure, or knock it down and start over again, which would be the cheapest option. In his words, Hinckley was "pissed" because they had spent a ton of money renovating the temple in the 80s. Apparently, revelation in the 80s didn't help make the building seismically sound.
Speaking of seismic soundness, he said the worst place to be in an earthquake would be outside the church office building. He said he could guarantee that the concrete facing on the outside would fall off in even a moderate earthquake.
He went over to inspect the Promised Valley Playhouse one day. He said, "I've never been afraid to be in a building before, but I went in there and got out immediately." He said the building had originally been 3 walls bolted onto the building next door. When that building was knocked down later, the playhouse became extremely unstable.
One day he said, "I just condemned a parking garage." The covered garage north of Temple Square had a nasty habit of dropping chunks of concrete onto parked cars. He said the building was on the verge of falling over, so he condemned it on the spot.
While I was working there, they did an exterior renovation of the Salt Lake Temple. He said that the building had never been measured, so he was assigned to go up on the scaffolding and take measurements. He said the scariest thing in the world is to be standing by Moroni's head during a windstorm. Apparently, in the top of the spires are leftover construction equipment that the original workers just left in there.
He also got to inspect the tabernacle roof. He said there were no nails used. Rather, it is a wooden lattice held together with wooden pegs and rawhide strips. He said that most of the rawhide was intact, though some had been replaced by metal bands.
One day he was in his cubicle, and the dark-suited guys with the earpieces came in and escorted his co-worker out. Apparently, the guy had a porn stash in his desk.
He told me that there was a table in the celestial room of one of the temples that cost $80,000. But don't worry. It was donated.
| | | Story #4 - Moving Mountains Or Mountains Moving & A Bonus Lie From The Church For Your Reading Pleasure
Article Archived: Jan 11, 2006, at 08:31 AM
Stored Under Topic: EX-MORMONISM SECTION 3
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: Former Church Insider | | |
It seems that there was a little problem at the Granite Mountain Vault a few years back. The Lard and Mother Nature were obviously in a major feud. The work of the Lard was to go on uninterrupted, but Mother Nature had her way….
Above the vault parking lot in Little Cottonwood Canyon is a craggily mountain face littered with small, medium and large stones and boulders the size of houses… This area happens to be a favorite climbing ground in the canyon for a lot of brave rock climbers who showed no fear of the dangers of the unstable area, but are obviously scared to death of the church signs that say “stay out”….
Over time, the freeze/thaw cycles of the big mama made the mountain move in small but inconvenient ways. Rocks were always tumbling down the mountain side and smashing the windows, hoods and fenders of the underpaid employees’ and missionary vehicles parked below. This went on for a long time….Their cries for help to brethren and others who talked to the Lard went unanswered. Even all their faith couldn’t stop that mountain from moving….. All it took to finally get some attention was for a rock to hit some important person’s car one day…..and heads in the COB began to roll…..something had to be done about those rocks….
Several ideas were presented but no one could figure out a way to fix the problem. Some brilliant COB engineer was looking at the rocks one day and saw those pesky rock climbers and had an idea…. how about using those rock climbers to clear the mountain of rocks….and if we lose a few (climbers) in the process, all the better – this being said because the church refused the request of the contracted climbers to provide them insurance or any financial assistance if they came tumbling down with the rocks…..
A group of climbers out of Utah County (one of whom was about to scale Mt. Everest) took on the challenge….and thought it would be fun to be on that mountain in a legal way for once. The plan was put into place for the climbers to knock down the loose rocks and try and stabilize the larger boulders….. As fate would have it, the climbers did as they were requested and actually did a superb job for their meager wages and a lot of rocks came tumbling down, some large, and some even larger, and they just seemed to keep coming…..it was as if those rocks were going to never stop coming….
In the process of rocks coming down, three of the four entrance portals to the vault were severely damaged….one in a very major way. The parking lot looked kind of like a bunch of craters on the moon and low and behold, some of those rocks ended up on the main road below…..you know the one that leads to Snowbird and Alta ski resorts…..in fact the road to the resorts kind of resembled craters on the moon….. and unfortunately, many church and family picnics in the canyon had to be cancelled for the next few days to repair the damage to the road…..It still makes me sad to this day that some of those darling kids were deprived of this family quality time and church time….but alas as all of you know….S..T…happens!…(that’s Sacred Trials for the uneducated).
In the beginning, the church thought this would be a great human interest story…..you know, how the church was to help the poor rock climbers earn money for their trip to Mt. Everest and all…. Unfortunately, the Church News reporter assigned to the project didn’t get the word that he was only to report the “human interest” side of the story, because he mentioned something about “loose rocks” and almost got fired over it….oh well, he did learn his lesson and told his boss he would never report such faith demoting story again……
I know because I was there….but I’m sure a few of you naysayers will say I’m making this up again…..either way it’s still a fun story to tell…. The truth can be stranger than fiction….
………Now for the church Lie of the day……. Below there is a link from the LDS Church itself describing the famous vault…. If you’ll notice, there is the following copyrighted quote:
…..Vault manager Wayne Crosby says few visitors are allowed inside, but NOT BECAUSE OF ANY SECRECY SURROUNDING THE STRUCTURE. “The reason is to ensure that we maintain the environment of the vault," Metcalfe explains. "This collection represents a lot of money, time and effort. We want to ensure its long-term preservation."
OK… I have a question, Why is it that the vault has several armed security guards on duty at the same time, a zillion cameras, remote controlled gates – for both vehicles and people, 3-4 day background checks and security clearances, etc. for anyone who ever enters the vault….etc., and the largest stainless steel reinforced blast door on the face of the earth….
If you guessed that it is because BKP and GBH are interested in climate control and conserving energy… Bingo! You win the CTR answer prize for the day!
http://www.lds.org/newsroom/showpacka...
| I used to use the phrase "I know" a lot. I was absolutely assured that certain concepts and events were true. I belonged to "the" true organization. I heard people say all the time that it was really wonderful to know, to not have to wonder whether what we were involved in was really true. Everyone else in the world was tossed around by blowing winds of doctrine and doubt, but not us. We knew.
Some friends have asked me if I'm terrified of not knowing. They tell me that to even consider that they might be wrong scares them to death. Certainty of their path and their reward is what keeps them going.
But it's not frightening to say, "I don't know." I don't go to bed at night fearing an unknown future, worried about some dark, eternal punishment.
In fact, it's almost exhilarating to admit I don't know much. I understand enough to know that my lack of knowledge is nearly limitless. I know a little about writing and editing, about literature, about Mormonism, about Latin America. But beyond that, I know very little. I have unknown worlds to explore. I'm like Magellan just setting out from port. How exciting is that?
I find myself drawn to things I'd never paid much attention to: math and science, for instance. I want to understand how things work. I don't need to know the grand scheme, the plan of salvation. I don't need to know.
So off I go to explore. There's a scripture about those who are forever learning but never come to a knowledge of the truth. In a strange way, I hope I end up like that. I hope I never get satisfied with what I know. I hope I never sit back and say, "Well, that's it. I know everything I need to know."
I've already been there, and I am not going back.
http://runtu.blogspot.com/
| | | How Do You Process The Anger, And Get To The Laughter/Humor In The "Recovery" Process?
Article Archived: Jan 12, 2006, at 07:37 AM | |
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