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| | Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:29 AM Why The Temple Ceremony Cannot Have Come From Solomon's Time Original Author(s): SpongeBob SquareGarments MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| WHY DOES THE LDS TEMPLE CEREMONY HAVE THE SAME SIGNS AND TOKENS (AND MANY OTHER SIMILARITIES) AS THE MASONS RITUALS?
We’ve been taught that the purpose of the temple is to learn the key words, signs and tokens to enable us to enter into heaven. In the LDS handbook Preparing to Enter the Holy Temple, that the Church provides to members that attend ‘temple prep’ classes, the following quote is given by Brigham Young, and often quoted by modern prophets as well including the Oct, 2007 Ensign pp 20-21: "Let me give you the definition in brief. Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hell." So why are the signs and tokens, which the temple ceremony revolves around, virtually the exact same as used by the Masons? Faithful members will often give the only possible answer and that is the belief that the Masons had the temple knowledge since Solomon’s time. However this is disproved by Mason’s historians who state that Masonry originated with the stone-cutter trade guilds of Medieval Europe and have absolutely nothing to do with King Solomon’s temple. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, the pro-LDS apologetic organization FAIR also confirms that the Masons did not have the ceremony since Solomon’s time and that it is only a myth. If you go to FAIR’s official site and search for ‘Masonry’ you will find many articles and quotes that support the fact that the Masonry rituals clearly do not date from Solomon’s time. Here’s a few: “Unfortunately, there is no historical evidence to support a continuous functioning line from Solomon's Temple to the present. We know what went on in Solomon's Temple; it's the ritualistic slaughter of animals.” “The Message and the Messenger: Latter-day Saints and Freemasonry” by Greg Kearney “Masonry, while claiming a root in antiquity, can only be reliably traced to mediaeval stone tradesmen.” “It is clear that Freemasonry and its traditions played a role in the development of the endowment ritual…” FAIR offers no real explanation for the plagarization of the signs and tokens by Joseph Smith from Masonry. For the other similarities between the Temple Ceremony and Masonry they sometimes state that Joseph just borrowed the form of the ceremony. But since the Church preaches that the signs and tokens as presented in the temple (and in Masonry) are indeed necessary to gain entrance into heaven, then there is no explanation as to how the Masons developed the sacred signs and tokens in the Middle Ages. If even FAIR admits that the Masons did not get the signs and tokens (or any of the many other things that the LDS temple ceremony borrowed from the Masons) from the early church that existed in Solomon’s time, then why should any of us argue with that? There are some LDS that acknowledge that the Masons did not get their ceremony from Solomon’s time and also admit that much of the LDS temple ceremony comes from Masonry. How do they explain this? One such individual told me that God inspired the Masons. Since the light of Christ is available to all men, God may have inspired the Masons to incorporate sacred truths into their ceremony. My Response: This is a very naive theory. Why on earth would God want to have another organization essentially mocking the sacred temple ceremony? Imagine if you were in charge of a kid’s group such as the Boy Scouts of America and they wanted to add a special method of identifying themselves to other members. Would you give them the sacred signs and tokens from the temple ceremony? Would you give them the five points of fellowship? Would you provide them with the same death penalties as was used in the pre-1990 temple ceremony? Of course you wouldn’t because you would not want the scouts to be trifling with sacred things. Heavenly Father certainly would not have inspired an organization like the Masons with intimate knowledge of the sacred temple ceremony. Also, as secrecy is such an important part of the temple ceremony, does it make any sense that God would want other organizations to know those same secrets? What does FARMS say? When I wrote FARMS (now called the Neal Maxwell Institute for religious Scholarship) and asked them about the similarities between the temple and the Mason’s rituals, they would only say “An in-depth study of this matter is being prepared.” For more info on the problems with the LDS temple ceremony: http://www.mormonthink.com/templeweb.... |
| | Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:39 AM Time Limits On The Celestial Room Original Author(s): Gazelam MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| While I never was specifically told "your fifteen minutes are up" I can remember being politely hurried out of the celestial room a few times, and it appears most of the posters on here have as well. I never gave the issue much thought as a Mormon, or as an ex-Mormon because little details like that seem to slip away, but after seeing it on Big Love and seeing the posts here discussing it, I think its an important issue. Really, why do workers try to hurry people out of the celestial room? I'm sure the reason TBMs would give is because the massive amount of people (as if) going through and wanting to allow others the chance to bask in God's presence, but I think there are too more convincing reason for this policy.
1-The celestial room is the only place where TBMs can theoretically discuss the temple experience, but even in here, it is pretty much taboo to speculate on what just happened. If people had the opportunity to actually talk about the temple and converse (its very hard to have a whispered conversation) maybe people would realize that no one really gets it. As is, the church can pretend that everyone is recieving these "revelations" and if you don't understand, its your problem. By hurrying people out, the danger of people discussing the temple is minimized. 2-The celestial room is theoretically the place on earth closest to God, and where angels and dead ancestors are purported to often cross into the realm of the living. If people linger too long, they will realize their prayers fall on the same deafness in the celestial room that they do in other places. No angels or dead ancestors are lurking around. Its just another place. 3-Conversely, patrons who linger with their thoughts will realize they have the same set of temptations in the celestial room as outside. They will realize its not some lead-lined vault to keep out the Satanic kryptonite that infects mortality...its just another cheap room with 5/8" drywall and metal studs. They'll realize they are still covetous, still vengeful, still infected with lust, etc. Its not demons causing their problems, they're just problems everyone has and everyone trys to deal with, and no amount of fake plastic flowers will make them go away. |
| | Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:41 AM The Temple: spiritual incest Original Author(s): Truman MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| I think the reason Mormons are reacting so strongly to the HBO Big Love exposure of their temple ceremony is because deep down, they're ashamed.
I believe they have good reason to be. The temple ceremony is an analog for incest - it is spiritual incest. I know that's a bold claim. Please read on. What transpires in Mormon temples is secret because it could not be otherwise and be what it is. Just as incest is about secrecy, control and shame, so also is the temple. Here's why I think it's incestuous - think in terms of metaphor: The bigger, stronger, more intimidating, adult party in the relationship (God), imposes and act on the younger, weaker, more easily intimidated "child" figure in the relationship as a condition of acceptance - in this case, "Heavenly Father's" acceptance. The act is initiated by the adult without the child's full, informed consent. In other words, the "child" figure never really knows what's going to happen until after it has already occurred. Afterward, there is no explanation, just shame and bewilderment. Like other abusive systems, there's not much left to do after the act takes place except to take cues from those around you and pretend that everything is OK and as it should be. (parrot what other temple attendees say - "It was such a spiritual experience!") The act is secret. The act is enabled by others who don't have the courage or stature to confront the abuser. The nakedness of the "child" figure is exposed. (initiatory washing and anointing) There are dire threats for revealing the act. (pre-1990 penalties). The "father" figure tells the "child" figure that the act is special, and therefore cannot be revealed. (sacred, not secret). I think the reason why public revelations about what transpires in the temple arouses such strong feelings is because it compels Mormons to defend the indefensible. It compels them to face their shame. And that takes courage. I don't mean to trivialize incest with this comparison. However, when you look at the fact that people spend years, sometimes decades trying to come to grips with the damage that Mormonism has wrought in their lives; when you have support groups and websites like this one for recovery; when you have families destroyed over it, I think that the comparison is appropriate. |
| | Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:42 AM From My Collection Of Strange, Funny, Weird, Odd Experiences In The Temples Original Author(s): SusieQ#1 MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| I have a whole collection of strange, funny, weird, odd experiences in the temple .
It was the oddest place! I never knew what was going to happen next.
More strange experiences in the temple! The temple is probably the most peculiar of all Mormon experiences and I have had several really strange, funny and horrible experiences while attending. They began the day I was married and never quit. Just something simple like women stepping on the short train of my wedding gown while going from room to room, stopping me in my tracks, ruining my gown and nearly tearing it off me, and then losing track of my disabled mother were very unsettling and nerve racking the first time I attended the temple. Then there was a big discussion about the shoes I brought. They had a teeny-tiny heal was accepted, rejected, accepted, rejected and finally accepted! They sent me back and forth finally letting me wear them. Second time going to the temple, less than a year later..... No one explained to me that my husband would not be taking me through the "veil" at the end of the session (with the five points of fellowship, which I found totally inappropriate) on subsequent visits. So, when I went to the temple the second time, I waited and waited and wouldn't leave my seat because I was waiting to be taken to my husband! I couldn't figure out what was going on with people getting up and going out in rows. What was I supposed to do? So, I stayed put. A temple worker approached me an I explained my dilemma to her, she first tried to show me who was behind the veil and assured me it would be okay. Well... naturally, I assumed it was going to be my husband, instead, it was a huge South Pacific man (Samoan?) standing there grinning. That did it! I started to cry. I couldn't understand what had happened to my husband and who was that man??? She thought I was prejudiced and tried to assure me that he was okay, lost her patience and fussed at me about not going through the veil. But, I refused to leave my seat! When I continued to refuse to up to the veil and do the five points of fellowship with that strange man, , another patron chastised me for "making a scene" stomped off in a huff. I sat there and cried. Finally, when I wouldn't budge and was holding up the session, someone asked me for my husbands name and went and got him so he could do the "officiating" at the veil! That experience left me so shaken that I refused to go for a year. But, then I relented and went again! It never occurred to anyone that it would be a good idea to let people know they would be acting out death oaths in the temple either. Another example of no full disclosure. I was only 21 years old at the time and would like to have known ahead of time about that little part of the ritual. The only thing that kept me from being terrorized was the HOPE that they were figurative, and I was in such a state of surprise and shock over the whole temple experience, I couldn't remember what it was I was not to divulge anyhow. :-) SLC Temple: On one visit to the Salt Lake City Temple, we were waiting in the chapel for the rest of our group of friends when I saw them in another area. I got up and left the chapel to tell them where we were. When I returned, a male temple worker stopped me by put his hands out completely blocking the isle and said I couldn't go through the session because I had left my place and the session was closed. He continued to stand there and block my passage. No amount of explaining that my husband was still there and I left for a minute would budge him from his position. I saw my bewildered husband at the back of the room, and noticing another door, left and came in the back door and joined my husband and friends. Then I tried to get out without the temple worker seeing me. I was sure he was going to grab me and refuse to let me by again. But, I guess he forgot because he didn't even notice when I walked by him. Another strange experience: One of the most disturbing things happened as I came out of the washing and anointing area, clothed in that silly tunic wrapped shut over my long temple garments. I was in a new, unfamiliar new temple (I forget which one), when I had gotten turned around and lost my way. I walked past several temple workers standing at their posts and walked in the wrong direction and opened the door to the big waiting room with people in their street clothes. Fortunately, one of the workers woke up as I opened the door and stopped me before I walked out there. I can still see the bewildered looks on the faces of that crowd!:-) LA Temple: Another time, while waiting for my party to leave, I was approached by a temple worker who, completely out of the blue, grasped my hand in a death grip after the session and asked if I had done the temple work for all of my family. When I mentioned that I did not know who my father was, he told me that I would never be able to enter the Celestial Kingdom, etc., etc., until I "forgave him." Well, I tried to explain that I didn't even know my father and had nothing to forgive, however, this information fell on deaf ears and he proceeded with his mission of instructing me, all the while continuing to hold fast onto my hand with both of his. Fortunately, a male friend in our party got him to release his grip and got me away from him. That was just too weird! I never did figure out why he grabbed me, a total stranger and went on a tirade. Senile maybe? MISC: Remember the female workers with their little pockets full of emergency supplies? I got a chewable vitamin C one time when I was having an allergy attack. This one I won't forget! Sometimes a little humor lightens the mood of a dull, repetitive temple session. Many years ago, I attended the temple with a group from our Ward. One of the ladies was a very small spry (probably about 80 yr old) widow, who had recently lost her large built 90+ year old husband She arrived with us at the temple , carrying her matching suitcase with the temple garb. Remember those!? When she opened it, she realized she had her deceased husbands suitcase! Laughingly, she remarked that she probably gave them the wrong suitcase for her husband's burial, and she wondered if he was buried in her temple clothes. (Not likely as those are different - but she probably didn't know that.) Not to be deterred, she put on his one piece men's garments! She didn't have quite enough clothes in her size, so one of the matrons brought some for her. The three of us women, who knew what happened could barely keep our faces straight through the session knowing she was wearing her deceased husbands, very large, men's garments, which she later remarked were more comfortable than her own! I remember those sashes and especially how much trouble some of the older man had keeping them in the right place. When he pulled on it it went whosh... came completely out! It was not uncommon for the whole temple session to be held up while someone helped the guy re-thread his string into his robe! :-) The solution was so simple. Sew them in! But NO .... that didn't happen! And there are many more! |
| | Monday, Mar 23, 2009, at 08:49 AM Thoughts From The Draper Temple Dedication Original Author(s): Nate MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Two stories that just boil my blood, the first was about a man in the South Pacific who spent his entire life savings to go to the temple in New Zealand. What the hell? Why would Monson bring that story up right now in the middle of a near depression?
Second is even worse. Apparently apostle Nelson related a story once where some important Israeli architect was asked what would happen if the Temple in Jerusalem was rebuilt, this person’s response was “I don’t know go ask the Mormons”. Monson related this and the context was to show that the temple rituals are ancient. Is he dense? It is an obviously patronizing statement, and shows the contempt that this people and nation with a rich history and heritage feel for the Mormon view point that they have restored the Jewish religion to it’s ancient glory. (I tried to confirm this story but could not, however Monson told it in the temple dedication so he thinks its true.) Everyone who wants to know can find out what happened in the two Jewish temples and in the Tabernacle, it is not a mystery, it might be sacred but it sure isn’t secret. |
| | Monday, Mar 23, 2009, at 09:02 AM Seven Cents Original Author(s): Anonymous MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Today I went to the dedication of the Draper temple, broadcast at my local stake center. Because I have very recently found out the true history of the church, even my bishop doesn't know that my testimony has completely collapsed. My spouse got signed tickets for our whole family to attend the dedication, no questions asked.
As I sat watching the films of the inside of the temple that played while we waited for it to start, I couldn't help noticing the amazing crystal chandelier that seemed to be a centerpiece of the Draper temple. It must have cost tens of thousands, if not a hundred thousand dollars. It's gorgeous. But my mind went back to a TV special I saw about how many children die in third world countries due to the lack of a proper tetnus shot. The cost: seven cents per vaccination. And then I got mad. How could Mormons possibly think that the Savior they worship would be pleased? I think he would walk into his so-called house and say "Nice chandelier - thanks for buying it for me. How many of my children did you have to let die to have the money for it?" The Jesus of the bible healed the sick, fed the hungry and put people first. One of the speakers at the temple dedication even talked about the Savior healing the blind, not even seeing the irony of the fact that if the good people of Draper had been willing to drive a few more miles to the Jordan River Temple, the church could have had the money to heal a few blind people themselves. Priorities, people. Finally, just a note. Two of the speakers stressed heavily how we are in the last days and the only peace that will soon be available, will be found in the temples. Fear tactics. And another claimed that anyone who came to the temple pure of heart will learn more about their Savior. Clever. If you don't learn about the Savior in our relatively Jesus-free Temple, it's your fault for not being pure of heart. What TBM would admit they hadn't felt anything now? The whole thing made me mad, from start to finish. I was one of the first to hit the door when it ended. My sweetheart gave me a kiss and thanked me for being willing to go with our family. I'm still trying to decompress, hours later. Seven cents - GEEZ! |
| | Tuesday, Mar 24, 2009, at 07:49 AM The Temple : The Ultimate Prize And The Ultimate Trap Original Author(s): Leaving MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| From the moment they walk through the primary doors, the brainwashing begins: "I love to see the temple, I'm going there some day..." LDS children are raised to believe that going to the temple will be the ultimate spiritual experience.
The first time usually accompanies a mission call or a marriage so the young man or woman often is preoccupied with other things, so the oddity of the experience is lost until after covenants and promises are made. I was told that I probably would not understand the endowment the first time, and that it might seem a little weird. It WAS weird, but I committed to going often in order to "receive further light and knowledge." Of course that knowledge never came and every time I slit my throat or disemboweled myself, I was uncomfortable. By the time I was certain that the LDS temple was not the House of the Lord, I was married with one child and another on the way. I felt trapped. I tried to find my "testimony" again, but I knew too much. Now I have to wait outside during family weddings, stay out of blessing circles, and know that some members of my family assume that I have committed some terrible sin. Only a cult would hold something up as the ultimate prize and then use it to control everything from what underwear to wear to what activities are acceptable for Monday night to what kind of sex a married couple can have. |
| | Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009, at 07:59 AM Shunning Is A Requirement Original Author(s): forestpal MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
in order to earn a temple recommend and answer "no" to that tricky Question #7:
7. Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?I'm sure this includes people with tattoos, piercings, wear the wrong clothes, see R-rated movies, etc. It must be a very long list these days. When I was a temple-going TBM, whenever I was asked that question, my mind would flash to my ex-Mormon cousins, and friends who are non-Mormon, Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic, atheist, etc. So many people I knew were "contrary" and in "opposition to" LDS teachings and practices! For a few minutes, I seriously considered hanging out with those people less! Glad I didn't act on it, because now these are the only friends I have. What flashed through your mind when you were TBM, and answered Question #7? Did you ever think of this question, and then cut off a relationships because of it? Did you ever shun someone who left the church? Did you ever not allow your children to play with someone who was "contrary"? |
| | Friday, Jun 12, 2009, at 12:52 PM My Friend Will Be Standing Outside The Temple On Saturday While Her Son Gets Married - It Makes No Sense Original Author(s): celeste MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| The mormon church creates so much pain in peoples lives yet takes no responsability for it. It makes me incredibly angry.
My very good friend made a decision about a year ago to come out of the closet of lies to tell her family she has never believed in the church. In her 46 years there she had never had a testimony although she tried several times. She is now feeling the pain and lonliness of that decision. In her honesty she has been made to feel as if she has done something wrong. Several mormons have commented to her that why is she so sad if she knew she was making the right decision. She has even had some suggest she go anyway since her temple recommend does not expire for another month. No one in the church gets her...why would she do this. Lieng to them would be more acceptable. There is no support from the church members. She will watch her husband, family and a few good family friends come out of the wedding. Fortunately she has sisters that are not members to be there with her. As I watch her go through this I find myself riddled with emotions. Memories of 27 years ago when I was a young bride. My family were not members and I naively accepted the churches rules.I barely new my husband ...I was living the fairytale that he would take me to the House Of God and love me eternally forever. I painted a picture in my head of a Galliant Savior on a White Horse protecting me from the storm. My anger is intense....I sacrificed my family for a f..ing Lie. Memories of the temple haunt me. How vulnerable and controlled I felt at the washing and annointing. How alone I felt in my confusion and divided from my family and non mormon friends....yet I clung to the lie. The people that sat in the sealing room at my wedding are no longer in my life. My choice to leave makes awkward relations. Most of them were my stepfamily and my husbands family. There is no longer any common ground. My husband my daughters and I left the church 5 years ago. I was fortunate to marry a perceptive man who finally came out to me and proclaimed his truth....yet I still struggle with the deception we both were drawn into and the emotional aftermath we are left to make sense of. |
| | Friday, Jun 26, 2009, at 09:36 AM Temples Are Business Centers For The Church Original Author(s): peter_mary MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| I have a Brother-in-law who is very strategically positioned in the church (and I have to leave it at that...sorry), who told me several years ago that Temples are essentially "business centers" for the church, and they build them very strategically these days to capitalize on that.
What he went on to explain was that in areas where members had to travel more than a couple of hours to get to a temple, tithing revenues are significantly less than in areas where members have regular access. The reason was simple: You are much more inclined to maintain a current temple recommend if it is likely that you will actually be attending the temple more than on your wedding day. And you are much more susceptible to messages of guilt and coercion when your Bishop can say, "Brother so-and-so, you DO realize what a blessing it is to have a temple right here in our fair city, don't you? The sacrifices made on your behalf, so that you can enjoy the benefits, are hardly ones you should want to waste. Now, if you'll go ahead and make that check out in the amount of..." So while on the surface, it appears that the church is doing "a favor" to the saints of a city by "bringing them a temple," the truth is, in virtually every temple location in North America, it pays for itself in the first couple of years, and then it rakes in gravy forever after, all in increased tithing revenues generated from people who are now getting temple assignments on a monthly basis at church, instead of the once-a-decade bus trip to the temple six states away. Temples are good business for the church. On a related note, the same BIL noted about 15 years ago a real shift in emphasis in where and how missionaries were selected for assignment. For decades, the mindset was that you sent your best and brightest missionaries on foreign missions, because they had to learn a foreign language, and you had to trust them in situations in which they were not otherwise comfortable. The result? A whole bunch of converts in poor nations where the church not only didn't INCREASE revenues...it COST them money. Their demographic studies showed them that the VAST majority of their tithes and offerings came from North America, and so there was a shift, directing more and more of their best and brightest missionaries to state-side missions, and working ever harder to keep indigenous missionaries in their native land. Again, it was a savvy business move, not a way to actually build God's kingdom on earth (although Gordon's kingdom didn't do too shabby...) |
| | Thursday, Jul 16, 2009, at 08:56 AM False Advertising: The "Mirrors Of Eternity." Original Author(s): NormaRae MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| I grew up hearing about the beautiful mirrors on each side of the sealing rooms in the temple and how you stand in front of them and you can see yourselves as a couple going on for all eternity. The picture that comes to mind is one that was in “The New Era” many moons ago (the early Seventies), not long after the beginning of that magazine. There was an issue they did on the temple and it was done as a “collector’s edition.” It was completely white on the front and back cover and had the words “The New Era” embossed on the front. The whole thing was about working to go to the temple and had lots of pictures of the beautiful rooms and lots of articles about how wonderful and beautiful temple marriages are.
I’d give ANYTHING if I could get my hands on that issue now. I remember one picture, I believe it was a drawing and not a photo. But it showed a bride and groom looking into the mirrors and the mirrors going on in both directions until the image of them in each mirror got smaller and smaller. But I DO remember the bride in a beautiful wedding dress and the groom in a dark suit. I thought it was the most beautiful picture I’d ever seen. I fantasized about my wedding for years, thinking about what it was going to look like to stand in front of those mirrors. I was totally freaked after I went through for my endowment (pre-1990 ceremony). But everyone kept telling me that my wedding day would be wonderful and we wouldn’t have to go through any of that stuff. I mean, I don’t know if it’s different now, but back then you never heard anybody say anything about anything that went on in the temple (and there was no internet to get info). So I was grateful for any preparation I got. I knew I got to wear my wedding dress in the temple but that I’d have to wear the temple shoes, as would everyone else. That’s what I thought it was limited to—everyone (including the groom and I) just changing our SHOES. I took my veil and whole wedding ensemble into the temple. I had NO CLUE that I’d have to put those hideous robes and fig leaf back on OVER my wedding dress and especially that the only reason I took my veil into the temple was to put on to wear outside for the pictures. When they told me I didn’t wear it but had to put that butt-ugly temple veil on, it was all I could do not to cry. My mother had bought me my own temple robes and had brought them and presented them to me in the bride's room (thinking it would be a very special moment). I think partly because I'd complained that the ones I rented when I got my endowments were ugly. But I didn't know we had to have them on the wedding day. So then, I’m thinking we’re going to the ceiling room and the temple crone comes to take me off somewhere else while my mother leaves and goes to the sealing room. I knew my husband would take me through the veil, I just didn’t ask when it happened, so this was it. When I got on the other side of the veil and saw him in his getup—fig leaf, baker’s hat, robe and all I was in such shock. We held hands and walked into the sealing room and everything was kind of a blur after that. The sealer droned on and then had us stand up and look into the mirrors. I didn’t even want to look. I knew I’d been sold a bill of goods of what it would be like. It wasn’t going to be like that beautiful picture of a bride and groom going on forever. It was going to be us in our hideous costume going on forever. I gave it a quick glance and then looked down, again trying not to cry. I sat down and kept wondering why they’d put that picture in the special collector’s temple edition of the New Era. Why did they mess around with young girls’ dreams of their wedding day? Luckily, when we got out of there, we did have a fun reception. My mother had let me rent a room at a hotel and didn’t make me have it in the cultural hall. We had a great band and danced and I tired to wipe the wedding part of that day out of my mind. So did anyone else go through this same kind of shock when they did the mirror thing or did the rest of y’all know that you’d be in your costume when that happened. If you knew, at what point were you told? Did any other females fantasize about that special “mirror moment” thinking you’d get to see yourself in your wedding dress when it happened? Always just wanted to know if it were only me. |
| | Wednesday, Aug 19, 2009, at 07:46 AM Elohim: Not Exactly What They Taught You In The Temple Original Author(s): Eric Davis MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| How many of you are familiar with a god named Elohim, who had a son named Jehovah, who was responsible for creating the earth? That's what I was taught for many years as a Mormon. But everything I knew was wrong.
Many modern languages have borrowed words from older languages. Such is the case with Hebrew, which borrowed many of its ideas from the much older Egyptian traditions. The Hebrew word for God, "EL" is origanally Egyptian. It was the generic word for a star. Several of the stars in Egyptian astrology used the word El at the beginning. For example: El-Osiris was the star of the god Osiris. We recognize the star today as Sirius, the alpha star of the constellation Canis Major. Even the word constellation can trace its roots to Egypt. Stella which is the Latin word for star, is built upon the Egyptian EL, seen in the middle of the word. The ancient Egyptian civilization survived for most of 5,000 years, a significant portion of which was during a time when writing was first being developed in the world. Traditions had been passed down orally, but most of them got confused with each other and as a result many of the deities became interchangeable parts. The god Osiris was, in one tradition, was supreme ruler over all other gods (the equivalent of Zeus in Greek mythology). Occasionally the names of the gods or other objects were conjoined together to create a new entity that had posessed the characteristics of each of their parts. For example: Amun (sometimes spelled Amen), the sky god, combined with Ra (Re) the sun, to become Amun-Ra, "the light of the heavens". When Osiris was used in combination with other parts, often just the O at the beginning was used. for example: O-Amun was a name invoked at the end of Egyptian prayers, in hopes that the prayer would fly swiftly through the sky to reach the highest god, who would then be able to hear the prayer. (If you say Amen at the end of your prayer, you are literally invoking the name of an Egyptian myth.) Instead of saying El-Osiris, one could simply say El-O to refer to the star of Osiris. In the Egyptian and Hebrew language the suffix "im" was added to a word to denote "many" of something. For example: angels were either a Cherub or a Seraph. If you had many of them they were Cherubim or Seraphim. Also, there were many gods of Baal (the Bull). They were the Baalim. The golden calf was one of the Baalim. Osiris also ruled over many stars. The many stars that belonged to Osiris were, of course, the El-O-im. In Hebrew the El-O-im became a single word, Elohim, and the many stars became the first official gods of the Hebrew people. So when we read in Genesis, "let US make man in OUR own image," it makes a lot more sense if we understand that it was the many gods of the Elohim talking to each other. Additionally, El (the stars) were one of the three most significant entities of the Egyptian pantheon. The other two were the Sun and the Moon. The Sun was, of course, the god Ra (pronounced: ray, as in the sun's rays). The moon was personified by the goddess Isis. As the Sun and Moon both chased each other around the sky, they both marked their path through a narrow belt in the sky known as the zodiac. The zodiac consists of 12 constellations (also known as houses), who are the devoted followers of the Ra and Isis. Ra, Isis, and their 12 followers, or groups of Els, together are Osiris's chosen race of gods. This grouping combines to form a single name, as well. The goddess, who receives special prominence in Egypt, comes first. In a conjoined name, one simply uses the first syllable, dropping the second "is" which is redundant anyway. The Sun follows next, as the prominent fixture in the sky. Finally the stars come last. And the name that is created: Is-Ra-El - Israel. Israel and his twelve houses, or tribes, become god's chosen race. Israel literally came out of Egypt, but not through the exodus of Moses. And the twelve tribes are simply the signs of the zodiac. As a footnote on the star known as El-Osiris: Osiris was killed by the evil Seth (pronounced: Set), and carried away into the underworld. Later Osiris's son, Horus, descended into the underworld and battled Set (hence: Sun-set). As a result, Horus was victorious and was able to raise El-Osiris from the dead. El-Osiris, translated into Hebrew is El-Azarus. Drop the E at the beginning and you get the name Lazarus. Therefore: The son of god raised Lazarus from the dead. |
| | Monday, Aug 24, 2009, at 07:44 AM What Is An LDS Church Temple Marriage/Sealing? Hope This Answers Some Questions Original Author(s): (SusieQ#1 MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| After passing two interviews to get the temple recommend--
(see Temple Recommend Questions here: http://www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/...,) then going through the Endowment Ceremony either on the day of the marriage, or earlier.
Washing and Anointing ceremony (only done once for yourself) where the Holy Garment of the Priesthood (notice ladies, you wear the same garment of the Holy Priesthood!), is placed on you and covenanting to obey: The Law of Obedience The Law of Sacrifice The Law of the Gospel The Law of Chastity The Law of Consecration --which is:(I am only including this particular one on this post as it has it directly applies to the marriage covenant.) Info on: Garments, each covenant here: http://www.lds4u.com/lesson5/templeco... Then - and only then may you be married/sealed in the temple. This is the Law of Consecration that proceeds the Marriage/wedding/sealing. Officiator: A couple will now come to the altar. We are instructed to give unto you the Law of Consecration as contained in the book of Doctrine and Covenants, in connection with the Law of the Gospel and the Law of Sacrifice which you have already received. It is that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion. All arise. Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion. Each of you bow your head and say "yes." Then and only then, after completing the entire Endowment Ceremony, making all of the Covenants, you may be sealed in the marriage ceremony. Here is the ceremony. Sometimes, the officiator will allow an exchange of rings at the end of the ceremony, and a kiss. (I don't know the current policy on this practice. Maybe someone else does.) Officiator: Brother ______, [naming groom] and Sister ______, [naming bride] please join hands in the Patriarchal Grip or Sure Sign of the Nail. Marriage Couple: Joins hands in the "Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail."This token is given by clasping the right hands, interlocking the little fingers and placing the tip of the forefinger upon the center of the wrist. No clothing should interfere with the contact of the forefinger upon the wrist. Officiator: Brother ______, do you take Sister ______ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice? Groom: Yes. Officiator: Sister ______ do you take brother ______ by the right hand and give yourself to him to be his lawful and wedded wife, and for him to be your lawful and wedded husband, for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice? Bride: Yes. Officiator: By virtue of the Holy Priesthood and the authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife for time and all eternity, and I seal upon you the blessings of the holy resurrection with power to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection clothed in glory, immortality and eternal lives, and I seal upon you the blessings of kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions and exaltations, with all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and say unto you: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth that you may have joy and rejoicing in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. All these blessings, together with all the blessings appertaining unto the New and Everlasting Covenant, I seal upon you by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen. To make sure one understands exactly what the "New and Everlasting Covenant" is, see: D&C 132. In the temple it is just called the New and Everlasting Covenant, the words: Plurality of Wives is omitted. To understand the background for the temple marriage/sealing ceremony: REFERENCE for easy reading: http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132 Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501—507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831. [INSERT: compare introduction to the 1969 edition of the Book of Mormon. Here's the 1969 version: Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. -------The Prophet’s inquiry of the Lord--He is told to prepare himself to receive the new and everlasting covenant--Conditions of this law--The power of the Holy Priesthood instituted by the Lord must be operative in ordinances to be in effect beyond the grave-- Marriage by secular authority is of effect during mortality only--Though the form of marriage should make it appear to be for time and eternity, the ordinance is not valid beyond the grave unless solemnized by the authority of the Holy Priesthood as the Lord directs-- Marriage duly authorized for time and eternity to be attended by surpassing blessings--E ssentials for the attainment of the status of godhood -- The meaning of eternal lives--Plurality of wives acceptable only when commanded by the Lord--The sin of adultery--Commandment to Emma Smith, wife of the prophet. http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132 1981 edition: 1—6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7—14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15—20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21—25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26—27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28—39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40—47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48—50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51—57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58—66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth. Did you catch it? Celestial Marriage is Plurality of Wives! The Mormon Church has never, ever stopped practicing their law that applies to polygamy or plurality of wives as that is what Celestial Marriage (The New and Everlasting Covenant) is! Did you notice that the marriage sealing ceremony not only continues the practice of polygamy, and, because of the covenant of the Law of Consecration, married you to the church and it's commandments by covenant, not each other? Investigators BEWARE: Demand full disclosure for informed consent. You won't get it from the Mormon Church, so do your own research. Know what you are doing, and what it really means! I doubt most LDS couples recognize and understand that they married in to plurality of wives when they were sealed in the temple. |
| | Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010, at 10:48 AM Deep Things Learned In The Temple (The World's Biggest Placebo) Original Author(s): A Three Hour Bore MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| So how is the temple endownment? Uplifting, sacred, deep...oh wait, I can say how I really feel here? Okay.
In a word...Placebo. I was a TBM convert jonesing hard to go to the temple and learn whatever great, esoteric, deep knowledge was available there that I was missing out on. I already knew the doctrine well and was about to serve a mission. So here are the new, revelatory mysteries--the very PINNACLE of holy learning--that were unfolded to my view in the Lord's house:
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| | Tuesday, Oct 19, 2010, at 08:35 AM Temple Session Interpretations Original Author(s): Boughxb MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Going to the temple after my mission was one of the most faith destroying events of my life. I tried like crazy to find an explanation for the video but I could find nothing from temple workers, from church contacts, or from friends on what the subjects might mean.
I asked one temple worker why women had to veil their faces and he just mumbled something about respect for the priesthood. Every question I asked from anyone receieved a similar response. I remember when Satan looks right at the audience and threatens them that if they do not live up to the covenants they make in the temple that they will be in his power. I asked why Satan was talking to me in the temple and got nothing. I saw it as a not-so thinly veiled threat or fear tactic. I remember when Satan responds to Peter's question "What is being taught?" with "The philosophies of men mingled with scripture." I thought to myself, is that what he is telling me is being taught in here? Is that what this temple experience is? What are some of your experiences you had trying to make sense of the non-sensical in the temple? |
| | Thursday, Oct 21, 2010, at 09:14 AM Veil Strike Original Author(s): evolution MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Ok so I accept that I personally won't really be able to make a difference as far as destroying the big parts of LDS inc that I hate. I know that as far as most of it goes I would mostly be "kicking against the pricks." But there are some things about the mormon church that I do think can be changed now. Maybe I'm delusional, maybe I'm naive or maybe I just have hope that change can happen.
Lets rewind to my first temple experience. I realize that my family was trying to make my first temple experience as pleasant as possible. My brothers even refrained from pulling the "watch out for the flaming hoops at the veil" joke or the even more notorious "don't drop the knife" joke. I was trying to have a good experience too. But when my mom and dad went up for the prayer circle thats when I really decided I did not like what I was experiencing. Up until that time I had been trying to keep a good face on. Sure it was different and sometimes awkward, no I wasn't impressed, but my seat was mostly comfortable so I didn't mind too bad. But when my parents went up to participate in the prayer circle, that is when it became wrong for me. They went up to make it a spiritual experience for me - well guess what, it wasn't. The thing that finally made my temple experience bad, and I've mentioned this before, but the thing that really bothered me about the temple was the dumb veils at the prayer circle! They callthis the true order of prayer??? Well why the heck does everything about the “only true and living” church have to be so sexist, racist, or homophobic? So my parents get up to participate in the prayer circle, and my mom and dad do the signs in preparation for the prayer and then the voice says that the sisters need to veil their faces for the prayer. What? Seriously? I tried searching my mind for reasons why this could be. I knew the scriptures pretty well, and I couldn’t come up with anything, but maybe I missed something. No, I thought, this was straight up sexism and needless to say I did not like the prayer at all. The prayer ended, and my mom looked at me. She didn’t seem to mind that the church had just done something that needed some serious justification in my opinion. My stomach was not sitting well. As a former veil worker I’ve searched for reasons to this what seems to me barbaric practice. I will admit that I did get this second hand from two veil workers that I worked with, and not from me asking the temple presidency themselves, but they are reliable guys and I believe them and I am going to try to find out from some other sources as well. The guys I talked to said that they heard from the temple presidency that the women wear veils because that is “just the way it is.” JUST THE WAY IT IS? Well screw that. So how does it get fixed? They’ve changed their endowment before and they can change it again. Last time they changed it was to make it more comfortable for people (and probably to avoid lawsuits in the future.) This is something that would make it more comfortable for people. I think it is wrong that they are treating women like this. I know that it is a small injustice compared to all the unfair ways/pressures women in LDS inc have to conform into their society, but it is something that can possibly be changed. What we need to do is say enough of this practice. No more of it. Give TBM a reason or else bag it and bag it quick. I personally have not left LDS inc yet, I am trying to find a good way out. But what better way out then going to the temple getting in the prayer circle and if you are a guy like me do all the signs, and then when they ask the sisters to veil their faces stand up for them and ask why? When they can’t give you a reason then say you don’t want to participate and leave the room. If you are girl then refuse to put on the veil, when they tell you to put it on ask for a reason. When they can’t give it to you then say you don’t want to participate and leave the room. Maybe this is a dumb idea, but the veils have always bothered me, and I think the only way it gets changed is a veil strike or something like it. What do you all think? Is it ridiculous? A fantasy? I don’t know how many people there are on here who haven’t left yet, but those of us who haven’t might as well try to change something as we go. |
 | Monday, Nov 15, 2010, at 08:28 AM Secret Doctrines And Practices? Lying For The Lord Original Author(s): RedJacket MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
Bruce R McConkie, lying for the Lord, once stated:
All of the doctrines and practices of the Church are taught publicly. There are no secret doctrines, no private practices, no course of conduct approved for a few only. The blessings of the gospel are for all men. Do not be deceived into believing that the General Authorities believe any secret doctrines or have any private ways of living. Everything that is taught and practiced in the Church is open to public inspection, or at least, where temple ordinances are concerned, to the inspection and knowledge of everyone who qualifies himself by personal righteousness to enter the house of the Lord.This statement is historically and even now not true: Historically a) The practice of polygamy (polyandry, polygyny and bigamy) began as a secret doctrine and practice. It was believed by the General Authorities namely Joseph Smith and was a secret and private way of living. It was not taught and practiced in the Church openly and was not available to any woman or man who was "worthy" in the beginning. Now b) The Second Anointing is a ritual that is not taught or mentioned publicly unlike the other elements of the Temple ritual which at least mormons are aware of. It contains secret doctrines such as the proper meaning of having Calling and Election made sure, wives giving their husbands blessings and the fact that Jesus was married among others. It is a private way of living especially when you think about the fact that they and their families are guaranteed exaltation. It is also not available for anyone who is worthy to enter the TempleTm, it's an invite only club. They are also told not to mention the ordinance openly and not to tell anyone they have received it including family. If they can get people to lie to their own families and it is kept extremely quiet within the Church, what else could they secretly believe and practice? Here are some links with information on it: This one is informative, gives examples of historical second anointings of Church leaders and explains where the idea of Jesus being married contained in JoD came from: http://ldsendowment.org/secondanointi... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_a... http://www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/... Something that goes into some detail about the theological consequences of the ordinance is found here: http://www.lds-mormon.com/second_anoi... As Sulki added the most current account that is available online is found here and is really illuminating, definately worth reading: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon... You aren't alone in never hearing about this before leaving the Church. I heard vague whispers about it on my mission and I remember being in complete shock that it even existed. Saying that I didn't realize about garments until just before I went to the Temple. With the internet these days everything is becoming much more widely available and all it takes is Google to find large amounts of information that was formerly hidden. We even get the CHoI before the priesthood leaders do. Something not mentioned in any of the links but which you can learn from certain quotes is that not only the couple receiving their Second Anointing or Second Endowment are guaranteed Exaltation, but also their children. The fact that someone can be a member their whole life and not be aware of this shows that it isn't ridiculous to believe that there are a number of things that are kept from the membership, that aren't considered "church doctrine" that are believed and practiced by the leadership. |
| | Tuesday, Nov 16, 2010, at 07:55 AM I Want To Clarify The "Apostate Group" Question Bishops Ask In Temple Recommend Interviews Original Author(s): Cheryl MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| I was there when this happened and it was of concern to *my* parents and the "apostate" groups who met in our living room. My parents were affiliated with several fundamentalist polygamy groups at the time and we were housing several wives of a plyg prophet in trailers on our farm.
This was in the early 1950's under Prophet Seer and Revelator David O. McKay's rule. There was a state wide law enforcement effort to curtail polygamist activity in an attempt to protect underaged girls and abused polygamist wives. The pr was terrible for the church. Everyone was buzzing about it and there were nation wide articles and news releases condemming Utah for allowing plural marriage. The church reaction was to claim they'd cooperate and to prove it they added this apostate question to the list for bishop's to ask faithful members. The net result was that polygamists who wanted to stay active in the mainstream church decided to lie because being true to the gospel trumped admitting the truth to these local rubes who in fundie minds were less than honorable although they were better than non-members. The faithful members after being asked this question felt more obliged to shun outsiders. Almost none of them knew why this question had been added and assumed it meant they should give a wide birth to apostates, inactives, and antis, outcasts and other worldly riff-raff. I doubt that even most bishops knew fully why the top leaders had decided to include the new question. And after all this time, I would bet that not one in a thousand members or leaders know the history of this interview insertion. I think it's like masturbation and oral sex. If a bishop grew up and experienced interviews where bishops interpreted "chasity" to mean the exclusion of these practices, then he would follow that example when he was in the interviewer role. So now I think almost all members and bishops assume that mormons ought to take special precautions when they're forced to deal with non-mormons. In other words, mormons feel they should shun anyone who doesn't comply with mormon expectations. |
| | Thursday, Dec 2, 2010, at 07:36 AM The Temple Ceremonies: Symbolic, Literal, Figurative, Spiritual? Some Of My Experiences Original Author(s): SusieQ#1 MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Since discussing the temple ceremonies as a member was taboo, how did you experience them? I listed four possibilities, there are probably more.
As I was a young adult convert, and had some interest in theater, I understood the temple ceremonies as an interactive play, and symbolic, figurative, not literal in any sense. At least, that was my ---hope! I had a sense of some spiritual,. meditative peace as it was a quiet place, excluded from the outside world. It was a kind of escape from the world especially as it was a two hour drive or more each way - with no kids,.no phone, etc. I attended regularly, (probably did over 500 sessions over thirty years in eight or nine temples, one in Europe), as I believed, at the time, in the notion that these ordinances were necessary for the afterlife, and as such, I was doing a service to others. Of course, I don't believe in those ideas anymore, but they were important to me at the time. That was then, this is now. :-) It was often a place where the unexpected caught me off guard. I never knew what was going to happen next. Of course, like the rest of you, I was totally unprepared for the experience. One of the first posts I wrote well over 10 years ago was titled: My strange, funny, weird, odd experiences in the temple.This is how I wrote about my experiences. I have a whole collection of strange, funny, weird, odd experiences in the temple . It was the oddest place! I never knew what was going to happen next. Strange experiences in the temple! The temple is probably the most peculiar of all Mormon experiences and I have had several really strange, funny and horrible experiences while attending. They began the day I was married and never quit. Just something simple like women stepping on the short train of my wedding gown while going from room to room, stopping me in my tracks, ruining my gown and nearly tearing it off me, and then losing track of my disabled mother were very unsettling and nerve racking the first time I attended the temple. Then there was a big discussion about the shoes I brought. They had a teeny-tiny heal was accepted, rejected, accepted, rejected and finally accepted! They sent me back and forth finally letting me wear them. Second time going to the temple, less than a year later..... No one explained to me that my husband would not be taking me through the "veil" at the end of the session (with the five points of fellowship, which I found totally inappropriate) on subsequent visits. So, when I went to the temple the second time, I waited and waited and wouldn't leave my seat because I was waiting to be taken to my husband! I couldn't figure out what was going on with people getting up and going out in rows. What was I supposed to do? So, I stayed put. A temple worker approached me an I explained my dilemma to her, she first tried to show me who was behind the veil and assured me it would be okay. Well... naturally, I assumed it was going to be my husband, instead, it was a huge South Pacific man (Samoan?) standing there grinning. That did it! I started to cry. I couldn't understand what had happened to my husband and----- who was that man??? She thought I was prejudiced and tried to assure me that he was okay, lost her patience and fussed at me about not going through the veil. But, I refused to leave my seat! When I continued to refuse to up to the veil and do the five points of fellowship with that strange man, , another patron chastised me for "making a scene" stomped off in a huff. I sat there and cried. Finally, when I wouldn't budge and was holding up the session, someone asked me for my husbands name and went and got him so he could do the "officiating" at the veil! That experience left me so shaken that I refused to go for a year. But, then I relented and went again! It never occurred to anyone that it would be a good idea to let people know they would be acting out death oaths in the temple either. Another example of no full disclosure. I was only 21 years old at the time and would like to have known ahead of time about that little part of the ritual. The only thing that kept me from being terrorized was the HOPE that they were figurative, and I was in such a state of surprise and shock over the whole temple experience, I couldn't remember what it was I was not to divulge anyhow. :-) SLC Temple: On one visit to the Salt Lake City Temple, we were waiting in the chapel for the rest of our group of friends when I saw them in another area. I got up and left the chapel to tell them where we were. When I returned, a male temple worker stopped me by put his hands out completely blocking the isle and said I couldn't go through the session because I had left my place and the session was closed. He continued to stand there and block my passage. No amount of explaining that my husband was still there and I left for a minute would budge him from his position. I saw my bewildered husband at the back of the room, and noticing another door, left and came in the back door and joined my husband and friends. Then I tried to get out without the temple worker seeing me. I was sure he was going to grab me and refuse to let me by again. But, I guess he forgot because he didn't even notice when I walked by him. Another strange experience: One of the most disturbing things happened as I came out of the washing and anointing area, clothed in that silly tunic wrapped shut over my long temple garments. I was in a new, unfamiliar new temple (I forget which one), when I had gotten turned around and lost my way. I walked past several temple workers standing at their posts and walked in the wrong direction and opened the door to the big waiting room with people in their street clothes. Fortunately, one of the workers woke up as I opened the door and stopped me before I walked out there. I can still see the bewildered looks on the faces of that crowd!:-) LA Temple: Another time, while waiting for my party to leave, I was approached by a temple worker who, completely out of the blue, grasped my hand in a death grip after the session and asked if I had done the temple work for all of my family. When I mentioned that I did not know who my father was, he told me that I would never be able to enter the Celestial Kingdom, etc., etc., until I "forgave him." Well, I tried to explain that I didn't even know my father and had nothing to forgive, however, this information fell on deaf ears and he proceeded with his mission of instructing me, all the while continuing to hold fast onto my hand with both of his. Fortunately, a male friend in our party got him to release his grip and got me away from him. That was just too weird! I never did figure out why he grabbed me, a total stranger and went on a tirade. Senile maybe? MISC: Remember the female workers with their little pockets full of emergency supplies? I got a chewable vitamin C one time when I was having an allergy attack. This one I won't forget! Sometimes a little humor lightens the mood of a dull, repetitive temple session. Many years ago, I attended the temple with a group from our Ward. One of the ladies was a very small spry (probably about 80 yr old) widow, who had recently lost her large built 90+ year old husband She arrived with us at the temple , carrying her matching suitcase with the temple garb. Remember those!? When she opened it, she realized she had her deceased husbands suitcase! Laughingly, she remarked that she probably gave them the wrong suitcase for her husband's burial, and she wondered if he was buried in her temple clothes. (Not likely as those are different - but she probably didn't know that.) Not to be deterred, she put on his one piece men's garments! She didn't have quite enough clothes in her size, so one of the matrons brought some for her. The three of us women, who knew what happened could barely keep our faces straight through the session knowing she was wearing her deceased husbands, very large, men's garments, which she later remarked were more comfortable than her own! I remember those sashes and especially how much trouble some of the older man had keeping them in the right place. When he pulled on it it went whosh... came completely out! It was not uncommon for the whole temple session to be held up while someone helped the guy re-thread his string into his robe! :-) The solution was so simple. Sew them in! But NO .... that didn't happen! And there are many more! |
| | Thursday, Feb 3, 2011, at 07:50 AM My History: Trying To Go Through The Temple Original Author(s): LochNessie MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Going through the temple and taking out my endowment, as the saying goes, put the nail in the coffin for me. I sort of went through the motions for the next few years, but I was never fully active again.
I had always had questions growing up and always had problems with some of the teachings, priesthood anyone? I always prayed for my doubts to go away, convinced myself that the church was true and one day it would make sense. In my early 20s, I couldn't ignore the doubts and the teachings I didn't agree with anymore. I actually started researching the church to prove to myself the church was true, well you can all guess what happened. Still I wasn't quite ready to denounce it all, but I was one confused young woman. While on winter break from college, I spoke with my home singles ward bishop about my doubts. He is a good person and I respected his opinion. The talk took many turns and it ended with him recommending I take a temple preparation class and go through the temple. This may sound odd, but it made sense in the whole area of our conversation. The problem was, I attended BYU. I met with my bishop there and said that I wanted to go through the temple. He replied that was fine with him, but the stake president absolutely refuses to give recommends to women unless they are getting married or going on a mission. Why? The bishop explained that the SP thinks that the women will go out and fornicate and because they had their endowment they would be damned. I could tell the bishop thought this was a little ridiculous, but he also made it clear the SP would not let me in the temple. Now this pissed me off! A immature teenager just out of high school can go through the temple because of marriage, but I can't. I'm not good enough because I'm not going on a mission. I'm going to go have sex now? This was just reinforcing my doubts about the church! Moved apartments-new ward. Went to the new bishop. I was about to graduate now and this bishop thought it was a great idea because going through the temple would help me have some kind of protection when I was out in the world without the priesthood. Yeah. But this bishop wanted me to go do baptisms for the dead a few times as a way to ease into the temple. I personally didn't see the connection, but I did it. By this time however, I was sick of the whole process and I dropped the whole thing. It just didn't seem worth the effort. I did eventualy go through when I got married. Guess now that I had a man it was okay, hey BYU SP? I will share this another post due to length, but once I went through, I was pretty much done with the church. The complete opposite of what my home ward bishop hoped for. You are so brainwashed to think that it is this great thing. Everyone is so happy for you. Makes no sense. No sense. |
| | Thursday, Mar 10, 2011, at 07:58 AM Going To The Temple Original Author(s): JoD3:360 MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| When I was 10 or 11 I walked into the kitchen and my mom was cutting up pieces of embroidered looking cloth and putting them in a tin can. Mom, what are you doing? She explained that they were pieces of the garments and that you could not discuss what they were for or you would die of disembowelment. Growing up on a farm, I knew exactly what that meant, and I could picture people in our area who would probably do that for me, including my own Grandfather.
When I was preparing to go to the temple, I mentioned this to my Stake President- he sorta chuckled and said No God won't do that, but the members might. He said it in such a way that I interpreted it as a joke...except my mom was dead serious, and like he said, "...but the members might." In preparation, although I had been through the probation and disfellowshipment phase of my repentance while coming back into the fold, I still confessed every possible misdeed that I could think of so that I would be sure that I was worthy to enter the house of the Lord. When we went to the temple my parents were the witness couple who were at the front of the room at the altar and we would all follow as they were given the signs and tokens first. As the ceremony progressed (this was after the 1990 change) I was disturbed to watch my parents doing this, and at the prayer circle I was positively weirded out. I didn't really want to be in the circle but it was expected of me. They did it so naturally, and afterward in the Celestial room when I was able to talk to them face to face, I was scared. They had become something strange and possibly sinister standing there in their robes and looking not joyous, but stern and expectant as they asked me if this wasn't just the most wonderful experience. The thing that kept running through my mind was a short story I read in High School about a boy who at midnight heard strange noises coming from downstairs and so as he crept to the hallway and peered over the railing to the Living Room he saw his parents and others dressed in strange clothes with a bald man in red robes and a wreath of roses on his head reading from a large and awful looking book. This was my first time in the temple. I did not feel holy, I did not feel joy, I did not feel the presence of what I expected God to be like. I was afraid. Thankfully, taking my wife and my children to the Sealing Room was a far more pleasant experience. It was one that I will always treasure. A few years later a new member went to the temple for his first time and resigned from the church shortly thereafter. It turns out that he was a Freemason, and he said that we had stolen the ceremony. That made perfect sense. My BornAgainst Co-worker had showed me numerous anti Masonic websites and it was then that I realized that I had Masonic markings on my garments. Although I was fully into the church and had callings that made me feel important, I could never dismiss the new revelation that Mormons are really just overglorified Masons. And everyone knows that Masons are evil. Right? Nevertheless, I would attend the temple as often as possible and got as much family file work done as we could, but no mastter how many times we went, I never did shake the feeling that something was not right, despite it being the most holy place on earth. |
| | Tuesday, Apr 12, 2011, at 07:28 AM Atlanta Temple Tour - Return And Report Original Author(s): DK MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| Last Saturday I went to the Atlanta Temple open house, and before going I started a thread about what I should expect/do. I was advised to basically not be a jerk and ask provocative questions. Sorry for the length; I broke it down into pieces so you can skip ahead to parts that might be more interesting.
I got there about half hour before my appointment, and decided to use this time to change into my "just-in-case" skirt I had with me. People, of all ages, came very well dressed and ready. I was the only woman there not wearing a skirt, and I changed in order to not feel out of place and to get the full experience. What I hadn't taken into consideration though was that wearing a skirt reveals a tattoo on my leg... well there wasn't much I could do about that at this point. I really don't think anyone noticed it or cared. I was told to wait in the church for my tour time, however they had an open slot in one of the earlier tours and I decided to take it. This would be a good time to mention I'm not white and delightsome, and so the mishie leading me to the pre-video room asked me "What is your native language? Do you require the tour in anything other than English?" My native language is indeed not English but I didn't mention this because I wanted the English tour. I told him this in a rather bad tone because it seemed like such a rude question, then he left me in the pre-video room. I don't think I made a good impression on him ;) The pre-video was a very "milky" view of temples and the history of LDS in Georgia. People commented on what was going on, naming the people speaking, the different temples being shown, but they didn't get emotional as I was expecting. Thanks to this board I knew who the people in the video were, and I felt proud of myself :) I only really remember Mr. Holland saying "If I can't be there without my wife and family, it would not be heaven." Our tour guide picked it up from there and walked us to the temple itself. While we waited for our turn to go in the guide showed us his recommend and mentioned its significance; it was my first time ever seeing one IRL. There were people at the entrance waiting to put plastic booties on our feet. When we first walked in a family in our group group-hugged, which I found endearing yet odd at the same time. The first stop was the recommend desk. The waiting room to the right of it was not mentioned at all. Next stop was the sisters' dressing room, just a regular locker room. Then we had to walk down the hall to one of the veil rooms (every room in the temple was permanently labeled at the door, except this one!) On the way there we passed two small sealing rooms; upon seeing them two young girls got VERY excited and had an OMG! look on their faces. Not much was explained other than "it's an instruction room"; of course, no mention whatsoever about the veil, which was covered in a gold curtain. The next room was the actual video room, with a forest scene mural. Again not much was explained other than "we watch a presentation about eternity". I could see the guide trying to think of the right words to say without revealing too much. Then we went to the chapel; someone in the group figured out that we went through it backwards but was not harassed for "knowing too much", only told that he was right. The next stop was the celestial room. The guide explained what this was before we went in. I have to admit my jaw almost dropped when I saw how bright and opulent it was. As I saw described in one of the archived posts here, it was "white and whiter", and same goes for the sealing rooms. The chandelier was the biggest one I'd ever seen; I never understood before how a single chandelier could be $5 mil but now I do, and I agree that all the money put into this would have been better used helping out people. I think our guide said a prayer while in the celestial room, then led us out in a "come here" gesture. He wouldn't even speak in there. While the guide led us out towards the baptismal font in the back of the temple, we got to see the other ordinance rooms; these were already labeled but not part of the tour. This next part was explained in the most detail since it's already public knowledge; the meaning of the 12 oxen (and we had all 12, not 6 and a mirror), the significance of baptism for the dead, etc. I noticed there was a separate entrance for the font area, and separate dressing rooms, I guess so the teens going there won't get the wrong idea about what goes on in the "other" part of the temple. The last stop was what I like to call the Mega Sealing Room. It was big enough to fit 50 guests, and other people in the group remarked it was "about as big as the biggest ones I've seen in Utah" which I assumed meant it was a much bigger size than normal. I tried to see myself into eternity but it didn't work for me :( The guide mentioned that this is where people get married and families get sealed for eternity, but not the mirror thing, then ended the tour with a personal remark about what being sealed for eternity meant to him. We were let out through a side door into the hospitality tent. I thought overall it was a very good experience, well worth the few years I had to wait and all the curiosity I had built up from reading sites like this one ;) The bad thing about it is, of course, that the real purpose of the temple was not mentioned, nor was the real process of being eligible to get in (pay your tithing!), the family heartbreak that results when loved ones can't go see your wedding, why the ceremony is so secret... and worst of all that all the expense that has gone into this building could have gone into helping out the less fortunate, especially given the situations going on right now. I can only describe parts of the temple as "opulent" and way over the top; not tacky, but you could see that expensive materials were used |
| | Monday, May 16, 2011, at 08:04 AM Blood Oaths And Death Oaths - Do You Know What You Have Done? Original Author(s): roflmao MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| My last straw was the Temple Death Oaths in 1980, DC Temple.
No one warned me, no one gave me ANY clue I would be doing such macabre, and powerful rituals. No one said one word about the chaotic feelings and confusion my mind and soul would endure. I was very young. Later I learned that... Blood Oaths are common in Satanic Rituals: Blood Oaths are common in Prison Gangs: Black Guerrilla Family (BGF) Aryan Terror Brigade (ATB) Nuestra Familia and many others While blood oaths are common, like shedding some blood in a cup. DEATH OATHS are only for the most HARD CORE and EVIL organizations. Many gangs are "blood in and blood out" meaning, you take a beating, or shed blood get in, ie: kill or injure someone. Then take a bloody beating, or your own death, to get out. Some people do blood oaths in more elegant ways, I have read about people mixing their blood in wine and sharing it, even in marriage rituals. TBMs fight tooth and nail, often lying, to hide the Death and Blood Oath history, but I myself took those oaths, and broke them. I know the truth, and that they lie, it cannot be from a benevolent creator "god". The Blood Oaths are not, were not, and cannot ever be valid if TSSC will not enforce them. IE: Admit they ever required them, or used Danites to enforce them, or pressured you into them. There is not a single case of "blood oath" that I consider uplifting, or of family values. Saying we don't do: Blood oaths Ritual sacrifice Child burning Does not excuse it. It's like, "Yeah, we used to be Satanic, but not now." Is it just me, or is that kind of weak? Duh! Some of my family is still in the cult. I am so angry at their behavior toward me, and lies about me, that I don't care they are still rotting in a cult. My family is healthy, prosperous, and out!!! This is one post I have had in me for a while, and I don't know if I am glad it's out or not, but many of you have wise and insightful things to say, and I am interested so I posted. |
| | Wednesday, Sep 28, 2011, at 08:38 AM Does Anybody Remember The "Five Points Of Fellowship Through The Veil"? Original Author(s): deconverted2010 MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| There was a kind of mystery about the temple and because I was not 'allowed' to go due to inactive husband I used to pay close attention whenever someone said something about the temple.
One day in sacrament meeting there was an announcement for all endowed members to meet in the cultural hall to fill in a survey. I was dying to be in the meeting and read the survey. I wanted to know. After the following GC there were people bearing their testimonies that the temple was so special that people should go again and it was much better, blah blah blah. Then it was turn to go. I did not experience the five points of fellowship but was very very uncomfortable with the washng and annointment. I kept closing my eyes and praying to understand, to receive revelation or confirmation. I went through the endownment and even though it was foreign to me, I kept trying to understand and to feel that special je ne se qua that people spoke of. At the end I thought we all looked like old testament people and I was cool with that. A sister came to me and said "it wasn't what you expected, is it? you need to come often to understand" A few years later a friend who is about my age and I went to the temple together, we went a few times together. One day he said, isn't it much better after the changes? I looked at him and said what changes, he tried to cover up and I said I knew there were changes but would he tell me what they were. No, he couldn't. He thought that I had been to the temple before the changes and apologized. I read about temple changes years after thanks to Richard Packman's writings and I thought, wow, it was already so uncomfortable 'hugging' a stranger through the veil without the five points. I can imagine how ackward that was. I do remember the open poncho and more standing up and sitting down. Attendance is still very low, at least on my neck of the wood, what will they change next? |
| | Thursday, Nov 17, 2011, at 07:43 AM How Much Does It Cost To Build A Temple? What Is The Price Tag For The Temples Being Built? Original Author(s): rt MORMON TEMPLES - SECTION 4 -Guid- | ↑ |
| I've done some studying into this subject. It is my belief that nowadays, temples are a way to project growth to the outside world and, more importantly, to the membership.
If you analyze the GC-talks of Mr. McTemple himself, even Gordon B. Hinckley, you will find that he often treated the number of temples being built as indicative of church growth. As far as money is concerned, I think you will find that it is largely a self-financing enterprise. First of all, look at a world map of temples and you'll find that the bulk of them is built in areas where (number of members) x (household income) = high. Bringing the temple to the people my ass, it's about bringing the tithing to the COB. There is a statistically significant correlation between the incidence of temples and (number of members) x (household income). Regression analysis supports a causal relationship. Second, when a temple is announced, many people will get excited and will want to obtain a temple recommend, even if they previously didn't used to have one. That means extra tithing revenue for about a year (running up to, and a few months after the dedication). I have personally witnessed this phenomenon when a McTemple was announced in our area. Third, the quality of the workmanship and materials of temples is relatively high. Combine that with rather low and "civilized" usage of temples, and wear and tear, and thus materials maintenance, will be minimal. The fact that most temples are closed most of the time is actually a good thing from this perspective and the Hinckster said as much (although he said the buildings would be empty because they would be built in areas with few and poor members, which obviously was a lie). And finally, regular maintenance is free because the church uses slave er..., volunteer labour for that. And to make the scheme even more despicable, members have to pay for the privilege to clean the sacred privvy because you have to hold a temple recommend to participate in the cleaning. Put some pretty lights on it at night and the PR-scheme is complete. |